Are American and European muslims more liberal?

[Muslimah]

Phat believe it or not, most of the American female reverts I know are in Niqab while neither me nor any of my family members are in. Most of the male dress Sunnah, Sobhan Allah I see them more strict in many way, if the word liberal was referring to being strict or not.

[Shereen]

BismillahIn the communities in which I have been, and the people with whom I have talked, the muslims who adhere to their religion most firmly are definately by far and away the minority.  Just as with Christians and Jews, there are muslims who claim Islam by heritage only and really don't practice at all.  Then just as their are Christians who sporatically attend church or just go to Christmas and Easter services, there are muslims who follow similar suit.

<i>Dan i would like o say that either ur with wrong crowd or some of those Muslims hwo 'think' that they r Muslims but in reality they have nothing that they can call Islamic..........I know there r a LOT of people like 'those Muslims' but u can never say that 'the firm muslims r in a very minority' because if u really explore Muslim people & their culture MANY of them r <b>really 'good' Muslims</b>.......the rest Allah knows best. As U.S.A calls itself a 'Christian' when A good number of people there r 'Atheiests' & many r like 'born' Christians.........they do 'everything' that Christianity 'prohibits'.........So iam very sure that atleast Muslim countries practise Islam better than countries like USA or Canada !</i>

[Shereen]

Phat believe it or not, most of the American female reverts I know are in Niqab while neither me nor any of my family members are in. Most of the male dress Sunnah, Sobhan Allah I see them more strict in many way, if the word liberal was referring to being strict or not.

<i>Masha allah very true indeed.....i have seen or heard it too that the people who convert to Islam r 'more' Islamic ............& the defination of being 'liberal' is upto people as i have explained above </i>

[Dan]

Bismillah

As salam alaikum

I am not expressing just my opinion. These are opinions of brothers about their home countries and from what they have observed. If they are wrong, then alhamdulillah but I have not had any reason to disagree.

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[Khairan]

My next response is connected to the first. I agree with Muslimah that the principles of the texts (Quran) are understood for the event from which they were revealed. Most who argue (not efficiently I should add) that the Quran can have new contexts and new meanings for different times lack the vigorous training and sedulous understanding of textual dynamics. The Quran was written in classical Arabic (without the vowel dots), not modern Arabic. Therefore, to understand what Quran says and what the Quran “really means” one would need to master Arabic, classical Arabic (I would also say Aramaic) and Hadith scientific investigation to truly be able to put forth a “reinterpretation”. Much of what is written on liberal sites and in liberal books fall short of understanding philological and etymological examination for textual investigation.  The above doesn’t argue that the Quran is static. Far from it. I insist that liberal responses are less than compelling when put to the test.

You are right in that many Muslims think they are being "liberal" and "progressive" when if fact they are just apologists who are trying to reconcile their Western sensibilities with Islam.However, you are greatly mistaken if you think that Islam by its very nature denies contextualism. I will give the example of the Shias (and explain myself a little for the benefit of non-Muslim readers).

Unlike the Sunnis, who base their understanding of Islam almost solely on the Qur'an and the oral traditions (and the legal precedents offered by the various schools of law), Shias believe in Living Law. They believe that the Imam, who is descended from the line of the Prophet, has the same ability to understand God's Law as the Prophet himself did, and what's more that he has a working relationship with God such that he can guide his community through changing times in a way that is still concordant with Islam. Among some of the groups of Shia who await the return of the Imam, there is also the belief that when the Imam comes back he will institute a New Order that will abrogate the law laid down by the Qur'an and the traditions. A manifestation of this can already be seen in the controversial Aga Khani sect, who do not have the same belief in and approach to the sacraments of religion that other Muslims (or even other Shias) do.

[Muslimah]

BismillahAs salam alaikum

I am not expressing just my opinion.  These are opinions of brothers about their home countries and from what they have observed.  If they are wrong, then alhamdulillah but I have not had any reason to disagree.

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

as salam alykom

Well we can not say they are really a minority, but Dan the people u talked to are partially correct. Yet there is currently some deficiency in practicing Islam. Come to places like North African countries, Islam is oppressed. My country for ex, Egypt, Alhamdulelah, the community is growing more aware. We can not really call those who adhere minority, but being a raised Muslim community one expects more.

(I use raised Muslim as a revert friend liked to put it I feel it is more expressive dont u think so??)

[Dan]

Bismillah

As salam alaikum

Khairan, are you Shia?

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[naseeha]

Unlike the Sunnis, who base their understanding of Islam almost solely on the Qur'an and the oral traditions (and the legal precedents offered by the various schools of law), Shias believe in Living Law.  They believe that the Imam, who is descended from the line of the Prophet, has the same ability to understand God's Law as the Prophet himself did, and what's more that he has a working relationship with God such that he can guide his community through changing times in a way that is still concordant with Islam.  Among some of the groups of Shia who await the return of the Imam, there is also the belief that when the Imam comes back he will institute a New Order that will abrogate the law laid down by the Qur'an and the traditions.  A manifestation of this can already be seen in the controversial Aga Khani sect, who do not have the same belief in and approach to the sacraments of religion that other Muslims (or even other Shias) do.

<i><b>لا اله الا الله</b></i>


لا اله الا الله

لا اله الا الله :thumdown: (astagh)

<b>KHAIRAN WHAT IN THE NAME OF ALLAH ARE YOU SAYING!!!!!!</b>

when the Imam comes back he will institute a New Order that will abrogate the law laid down by the Qur'an and the traditions. .

BROTHER THE NEXT TIME YOU SAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS... BE SURE TO SAY THAT THE SHI'A ARE A MISGUIDED SET OF PEOPLE....

if you do not say this then you make people believe that YOU ascribe to the beliefs....

and if you do then... what you are trying to tell us that an imam will come that would ABROGATE THE WORDS OF THE QURAAN AND SUNNAH...

WHAT MADNESS IS THIS.....

MADNESS.....

I Think that i shall go now....

subhanallah

[Khairan]

BismillahAs salam alaikum

Khairan, are you Shia?

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

Dan, the answer to that question is a complicated one. I consider myself a Shia for political reasons and because of my take on history, but I do not believe in imams or the existence of a specially dilineated line of people who bear the Prophet's wisdom, and I consider the Imams of history temporal rulers, not divinely guided ones (although I respect Jafar as-Sadiq as a great scholar). So religiously speaking I expect that most people would not consider me a Shia.

[Khairan]

naseeha --

Wow. Such a strong reaction! No, even though I do not ascribe to most of their beliefs, I don't think the Shia are a misguided people, anymore so than Sunnis are. Who am I to judge? I've known enough Shias in my time and enough Sunnis to believe that both peoples are sincere in their faith, so I am content to leave it to God to be the arbiter of who is right and who is wrong. I'm just worried about teaching myself and trying to approach my faith as honestly as I can.