Are American and European muslims more liberal?

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Are American and European muslims more liberal? - phatmonky - 05-14-2004

More liberal than their Arab and Asian couterparts??

Sure, generalizations aren't always good, and sure there are going to be exceptions.

But, pardon me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the muslims on this site from 'the west' (to save me typing time) are more open to introspection than those from elsewhere. I find that Muslimah, and others, are more apt to say "There is no options for what the Quran means. Allah Meant what was said, and nothing else".

I don't mean this in a bad or good way to either group. Just wondering if I'm seeing something that isn't there, or if others see such things as well [Image: smile.gif]

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - NaSra - 05-15-2004

Quote:Originally posted by phatmonky others, are more apt to say \"There is no options for what the Quran means. Allah Meant what was said, and nothing else\".

Yes thats the correct attitude of a true muslim, What the Quraan says is the word of God=Allah Himself. We dont put a "?" mark where Allah put a "period". You might want to call that like many others "blind-following" but we call that submiting to God.

Quote:Originally posted by phatmonky I don't mean this in a bad or good way to either group. Just wondering if I'm seeing something that isn't there, or if others see such things as well .

No harm done, but I think you are wrong.

I have one question

How do you know who is a European or american? I thought we were all behind a computer. [Image: tongue.gif]

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - Khairan - 05-15-2004

Quote:Originally posted by Intuition Yes thats the correct attitude of a true muslim, What the Quraan says is the word of God=Allah Himself. We dont put a \"?\" mark where Allah put a \"period\". You might want to call that like many others \"blind-following\" but we call that submiting to God.

Fine words, but as I said to Muslimah, I think the vast differences among Muslims attest to the fact that the truth is not as obvious as you claim it is.

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - Muslimah - 05-15-2004

Khairan there is much difference between that the truth is not clear and that Muslims fail to see it or see it the way they like.

Phat by the way, Dan, SisterJennifer, and BrotherTodd are americans, just for your info:)

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - phatmonky - 05-15-2004

Quote:Originally posted by Intuition 

How do you know who is a European or american? I thought we were all behind a computer.

Location texts, and or conversations with the person:)

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - phatmonky - 05-15-2004

Quote:Originally posted by Muslimah Khairan there is much difference between that the truth is not clear and that Muslims fail to see it or see it the way they like.

Phat by the way, Dan, SisterJennifer, and BrotherTodd are americans, just for your info:)

I am aware of that, but do you think that what I am saying has any sort of basis in reality?

Are those of the middle east, who live in mainly Islamic societies, more apt to follow the very word of the Quran than those in societies where they are a minority??

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - Dan - 05-15-2004

Bismillah

As salam alaikum

I am not giving my opinion just to disagree with you phat but I have honestly observed this trend myself. It will of course depend on what you mean by living in the West. Do you mean people of decent traditionally labeled as western or just people who currently reside in the West?

In my opinion, people who accept Islam tend to be less "liberal" or "moderate" and I only use these terms because they seem to convey the type of people that I am talking about despite the fact that I am unsure of how to be moderate in a religion. Either you believe that Jesus is God or you don't. Either you believe that Islam is a perfected religion sent by Allah or you don't. The rest is taking what one likes and leaving the rest. To me this does not seem as truly accepting a religion. This usually occurs with the less religiously educated people in my experience. Sometimes they may have a specialization in one area of the religion but they will then try to make declarations about aspects of the religion that is outside the realm of their knowledge. It is the equivalent of a cardiologist talking about dental procedures. Sure they both have to have some same basic background knowledge but certainly does not qualify the cardiologist as a dentist. At least, I would not go to him to have a tooth removed.

Back to the topic: I believe that the Middle East and other such areas are built up to be "extreme" (hate that label too). It makes a people more "other". No conspiracy here. It is just that interesting differences sell better that similarities. Would you want to watch a news program about all the Saudis who sit up late into the night, drinking tea and watching movies on their satellite dishes? "Let us observe as these gentlemen discuss thier cellphones, cars, and favorite music." Boring. I mean, we don't even have reports here about what the average family does in their day.

In the communities in which I have been, and the people with whom I have talked, the muslims who adhere to their religion most firmly are definately by far and away the minority. Just as with Christians and Jews, there are muslims who claim Islam by heritage only and really don't practice at all. Then just as their are Christians who sporatically attend church or just go to Christmas and Easter services, there are muslims who follow similar suit.

I will stop now since this is pretty long. Hopefully I answered your question if not let me know.

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - Shereen - 05-16-2004

i think that the defination of being 'liberal' is different 4 every one..........so it's pretty hard to say who's liberal Muslim & who's not..............because as u know some ppl will call 'liberal' Muslims as "weak Muslims"......ofcourse i mean NO offence to anyone....but this is the truth:p 

If liberal means not practising ur religion & being ignorant about ur faith YES this means that, that 'liberal' person is 'weak' in their belief

So we must 1st come up wid the 'universal' defination of being 'liberal':learn:

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - Muslimah - 05-16-2004

Alhamdulelah, Dan and Shereen put a complete reply no need for redundancy here. [Image: smile.gif]

Are American and European muslims more liberal? - Ibn_kumuna - 05-16-2004

Salaam Alaikum!

I will posit a two-way response.

Phatmonkey, I recommend that you read more Middle Eastern academic journals. There you’ll find pellucid and trenchant dialogues and debates on the interpretation of the Quran and Sharia.

Further, much of what you observe is less than an introspection. What’s being circulated by Western Muslims in general, liberal Muslims in particular is a regurgitation of liberalism with an Islamic spin; nothing novel or undaunted. What I would personally like to see from more Muslim intellectuals is a well articulated and pedantic response to liberalism by challenging some of it’s assumptions. Per se, pluralism? Equality? These have yet to go through the “mill” of Islamic scrutiny with a picaresque attitude. Such would allow Muslims to convey what’s truly unique and salubrious about Islam.

My next response is connected to the first. I agree with Muslimah that the principles of the texts (Quran) are understood for the event from which they were revealed. Most who argue (not efficiently I should add) that the Quran can have new contexts and new meanings for different times lack the vigorous training and sedulous understanding of textual dynamics. The Quran was written in classical Arabic (without the vowel dots), not modern Arabic. Therefore, to understand what Quran says and what the Quran “really means” one would need to master Arabic, classical Arabic (I would also say Aramaic) and Hadith scientific investigation to truly be able to put forth a “reinterpretation”. Much of what is written on liberal sites and in liberal books fall short of understanding philological and etymological examination for textual investigation.

The above doesn’t argue that the Quran is static. Far from it. I insist that liberal responses are less than compelling when put to the test.