Divorce In Islam

[Faith Hope Charity]

Well, you should hear what Catholic Filipinos say about this law… they just HATE IT.

Tell them to take it up with the boss's Son :) Just because a doctrine inconveniences you, doesn't mean it should be changed. If anything, we need to adapt our lives to suit the truth.

It allows you to move on and find peace and tranquility with another person. I already told you that divorce is the most hateful yet permissible act in the side of Allah, but separation and not getting married again, might lead you to sin.

I respect Islam's position on divorce. I just don't agree with it. Many things can lead to sin. We must resist temptation.

Now are you trying to say that the Qur’an is a man made invention? Or you are trying to say that the ]“inspired words of God” that was revealed to Moses in the OT were in fact not God’s words but man made invention?

I have the utmost respect for the Koran because it's the spiritual text for Muslims. God handed down to Moses the 10 Commandments (& various other revelations), but not the idea of divorce. God permits wrongdoing but He is not the cause of it.

I have to disagree, since your religion/Bible offer no solution for unsuccessful marriage

No one enters a marriage thinking it'll be unsuccessful. Therefore, no one should exit a marriage thinking it can't be successful. There's no such thing as "unsuccessful marriage" in the Bible.

the wife who can’t raise the children by herself needs some financial support

Both parents should raise their kids. Finance is the least of their problems.

the husband by nature cannot always live without partner

I'm in no way/shape/form a feminist, but this statement seems odd to me.

Now if both husband and wife get separated “and yet still married but don’t live together anymore”, then what is the point for marriage here? It is just USELESS.I hold the opinion that when SEPARATION is permitted, then marriage becomes TOTALLY meaningless.

Separation is temporary only! Mutual effort should always be made to resolve marital problems. This requires sacrifice. You need to give & take.


Peace Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Tell them to take it up with the boss's Son :) Just because a doctrine inconveniences you, doesn't mean it should be changed. If anything, we need to adapt our lives to suit the truth.

I guess you should tell them this by yourself; because I also don’t like such law the same way they do.

I respect Islam's position on divorce. I just don't agree with it.

Yes we also do respect your faith, but we don’t agree with it. that is just fair.

I have the utmost respect for the Koran because it's the spiritual text for Muslims. God handed down to Moses the 10 Commandments (& various other revelations), but not the idea of divorce. God permits wrongdoing but He is not the cause of it.

<b>You blow my mind</b>… all Christians whom I met (<b>including catholic priests</b>) wholeheartedly believe that every <b>word, comma and full stop </b> in the Bible were inspired by God. Paul also said that <b>all scriptures were inspired by God</b>, <b>INCLUDING THE IDEA OF DIVORCE</b>. Otherwise, <b>this part of the Bible should be thrown out if it was not inspired by God and it was only man made idea.
</b>

No one enters a marriage thinking it'll be unsuccessful. Therefore, no one should exit a marriage thinking it can't be successful. There's no such thing as "unsuccessful marriage" in the Bible.

But the Almighty God should have a solution all of our problems, and we are talking about serious problem here.

Both parents should raise their kids. Finance is the least of their problems.

But in practice this is not the case, oh man, <b>how I wish that you visit Philippines one day, it is the living example of how separation is totally evil. </b>

<b>the husband by nature cannot always live without partner</b>
I'm in no way/shape/form a feminist, but this statement seems odd to me.

Why?

Separation is temporary only! Mutual effort should always be made to resolve marital problems. This requires sacrifice. You need to give & take.

<b>Ok, I totally agree</b>, but if things never work out after <b>all kind of mutual efforts to resolve the problem</b>, then what your Bible say in this case? <b>No solution offered</b>, and so Islam gives the answer.



Although divorce being allowed in Islam is a sign of the lenience and practical nature of the Islamic legal system, keeping the unity of the family is considered a priority for the sake of the children. For this reason, divorce is always a last choice, after exhausting all possible means of reconciliation. For example, Allah addresses men asking them to try hard to keep the marriage, even if they dislike their wives:


... live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.
chapter 4 Verse 19


Also the following verse is addressed to women asking them the same thing:


If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves;
...Chapter 4 Verse 128


Again, the following verse is addressed to the family or the society for the same purpose of rescuing this bond, which God did not make easy to break:


If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, God will cause their reconciliation: For God hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.
chapter 4 Verse 35


But, if after exhausting all methods of reconciliation, the hatred between the husband and wife is still greater than tolerance, then divorce becomes inevitable. <b>Here comes the genius of the Islamic law</b>, <b>which holds practical, rather than unrealistic approaches</b>, <b>towards real situations.</b> The ultimate aims of marriage, as well as any other aspect of human life, <b>are to achieve happiness and virtue</b>. So,<b> when people are denied their right to end an unhappy marriage, these two aims are seriously violated</b>. This is, as the couple will live in suffering, which may lead them to marital infidelity. <b>Thus divorce in this case – if weighed up to the disaster of family disintegration - will be less disastrous. </b>


ISLAMONLINE.net


Salam


Wael

[Faith Hope Charity]

Hi again :)

Yes we also do respect your faith, but we don’t agree with it. that is just fair.

I can totally live with that!

<b>You blow my mind</b>… all Christians whom I met (<b>including catholic priests</b>) wholeheartedly believe that every <b>word, comma and full stop </b> in the Bible were inspired by God. Paul also said that <b>all scriptures were inspired by God</b>, <b>INCLUDING THE IDEA OF DIVORCE</b>. Otherwise, <b>this part of the Bible should be thrown out if it was not inspired by God and it was only man made idea.
</b>

Haha! You make me laugh! Wael, you're so cute!


Catechism 105: <i>God is the author of Sacred Scripture.</i>


I wholeheartedly believe that ALL Scripture is inspired! BUT God did not interfere with His people's free will & dictate their actions, words, deeds, thoughts & intentions. It was not God's will that Pontius Pilate condemn Jesus. It was not God's will that the Israelites live in captivity. It was not God's will that King David pursue Bethsheba. It was not God's will that Thomas doubt Jesus... & last but not least... God did not will Moses to legalize divorce!


Did God want the account of all these incidents to be in the Bible? Indeed! God inspired the human authors to write what they wrote, but he did not inspire the people to do what they did!

But the Almighty God should have a solution all of our problems, and we are talking about serious problem here.
But in practice this is not the case, oh man, how I wish that you visit Philippines one day, it is the living example of how separation is totally evil.

Wael, I encourage you to read Jesus' Sermon on the Mount (Beatitudes) which reflect the meaning of the Commandments (St Matthew, chapter 5).


Both Islam & Christianity pose a solution to the problem. Unfortunately, they don't match up! If divorce prevents Muslims from falling into sin then I'm happy for Islam to keep its doctrine as it is. Protestant Christians also allow divorce (I'm not too sure about Orthodox though). As for Catholics who whinge & whine about the magisterium's teachings, please tell them that the only Person who can change the law on divorce is the Person who implemented it in the first place... Jesus Christ! No Catholic Pope will ever alter the Church's teaching on matters of faith & morals because the Holy Spirit who guides the Catholic Church will never allow the spotless Bride of Christ to contradict the Word of God. If a Catholic divorces his/her spouse & remarries, he/she has committed adultery. Like it or not! There is one God & He's not currently residing in the Philippines.


Happy Eid al-Adha, my friend!


:peace:

[Faith Hope Charity]

<b>OFFENSES AGAINST THE DIGNITY OF MARRIAGE </b>


<b>Divorce</b>


<b>2382</b> The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble. He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.


Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."


<b>2383</b> The separation of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.


If <b>civil</b> divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.


<b>2384</b> Divorce is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:


If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another's husband to herself.


<b>2385</b> Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.


<b>2386</b> It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Haha! You make me laugh! Wael, you're so cute!

My wife keep saying that :D

I wholeheartedly believe that ALL Scripture is inspired! BUT God did not interfere with His people's free will & dictate their actions, words, deeds, thoughts & intentions. It was not God's will that Pontius Pilate condemn Jesus. It was not God's will that the Israelites live in captivity. It was not God's will that King David pursue Bethsheba. It was not God's will that Thomas doubt Jesus... & last but not least... God did not will Moses to legalize divorce!

What is the different between God’s will and the will of His chosen messengers? You are claiming that Moses legalized divorce without the command of God? not only that but you believe that the Holy spirit (<b>which is also God</b>) previously <b>"spoken through the prophets"</b>. So how can “<i>God the holy Spirit</i>” spoken through Moses and yet you are saying that divorce was not God’s idea?

Did God want the account of all these incidents to be in the Bible? Indeed! God inspired the human authors to write what they wrote, but he did not inspire the people to do what they did!

Yes but there is <b>a purpose for mentioning such ‘stories’</b>, because you remember 2 Timothy 3:16? <b>"All scripture IS given by inspiration of God, and IS profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.</b>


Anyway, we may come to this subject later on.

Both Islam & Christianity pose a solution to the problem. Unfortunately, they don't match up! If divorce prevents Muslims from falling into sin then I'm happy for Islam to keep its doctrine as it is. Protestant Christians also allow divorce (I'm not too sure about Orthodox though). As for Catholics who whinge & whine about the magisterium's teachings, please tell them that the only Person who can change the law on divorce is the Person who implemented it in the first place... Jesus Christ! No Catholic Pope will ever alter the Church's teaching on matters of faith & morals because the Holy Spirit who guides the Catholic Church will never allow the spotless Bride of Christ to contradict the Word of God. If a Catholic divorces his/her spouse & remarries, he/she has committed adultery. Like it or not! There is one God & He's not currently residing in the Philippines.

<b>the Bible offers no solution. </b> you are talking about the Church, Church, Church... but what the Bible says???


I can see no difference between <b>committing adultery If you re marry </b> (according to the Bible) and <b>finding a new partner and committing fornication and have bastard children after separation</b>. <b>Maybe this law was interpolated as some Christians scholars claims regarding the Bible!! </b>


So indeed, There is one God but He should find a solution to the people of the Philippines (and other nations as well).

Happy Eid al-Adha, my friend!

Thanks and wish you a very happy holidays :)


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit


May the peace of Christ be with you!

My wife keep saying that :D

Do you argue non-stop with her too? How does she put up with you? Haha! I'm only joking :lol:

What is the different between God’s will and the will of His chosen messengers? You are claiming that Moses legalized divorce without the command of God? not only that but you believe that the Holy spirit (<b>which is also God</b>) previously <b>"spoken through the prophets"</b>. So how can “<i>God the holy Spirit</i>” spoken through Moses and yet you are saying that divorce was not God’s idea?

In the O/T, when a prophet is prophesizing or revealing a message from God, he begins by saying, "The Lord said to me..."

Yes but there is <b>a purpose for mentioning such ‘stories’</b>, because you remember 2 Timothy 3:16? <b>"All scripture IS given by inspiration of God, and IS profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.</b>

I'll repeat what I said previously... There are no one-liners in Scripture! If the divorce fiasco in the Torah was omitted then the dialogue between Jesus Christ & the Scribe in the N/T wouldn't have a purpose.

<b>the Bible offers no solution. </b> you are talking about the Church, Church, Church... but what the Bible says???

"Sacred Scripture & Sacred Tradition make up a single sacred deposit of the Word of God" (Catechism - Article 2).


Prevention is the key (& these days education too).

I can see no difference between <b>committing adultery If you re marry </b> (according to the Bible) and <b>finding a new partner and committing fornication and have bastard children after separation</b>. <b>Maybe this law was interpolated as some Christians scholars claims regarding the Bible!! </b>

What do you mean? I completely agree with you! There's no difference between the two. Both are wrong!

So indeed, There is one God but He should find a solution to the people of the Philippines (and other nations as well).

If you live your life according to the commands of Christ, you wouldn't need solutions because you'd have no problems :)


Take care, Champ :thumb:

[Faith Hope Charity]

Wael,


I forgot to include these references for you to read:


<b>Ephesians 4</b>


<b>[21] Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ. </b>


[22] Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord.


[23] For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.


[24] As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.


[25] Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her,


[26] that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word,


[27] that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish.


[28] Even so husbands should love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself.


[29] For no man ever hates his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, as Christ does the church,


[30] because we are members of his body.


[31] "For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh."


[32] This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church;


[33] however, let each one of you love his wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband.


<b>1 Corinthians</b>


<b>[10] To the married I give charge, not I but the Lord, that the wife should not separate from her husband (but if she does, let her remain single or else be reconciled to her husband) - and that the husband should not divorce his wife.</b>


Yalla, go ahead... bite back :argue:

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Yalla,

i wonder, where are you from? :)

go ahead... bite back :argue:

Don’t worry, am not going to argue anymore, because I have nothing new to say, plus my aim is not to win an argument with you, so let the viewers of this thread make up their own mind.


Salam and waiting for more new topics...


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Ez-Zayak Wael :wavey:

i wonder, where are you from? :)

I'm from the "Paris of the Middle East"... but I'm living in the "Land Downunder" :)

Don’t worry, am not going to argue anymore

Excellent! Let's just call a truce :)


Peace brother :peace: