Strange Things

[ronniv93]

Umm,


I don't understand what you're saying is clear. Can you clarify, please?

[umm Zachariah]

Ronniv,


I assume you mean my last post addressed to you?


* I made a 'proposal' - to agree on that we don't agree?


This means that I interpret what I read to my understanding and you according to yours. This is where we seem to stand isn't it?


* You stated that human beings don't 'abide' or 'live' with anyone forever.


I agreed to that.


BUT here I also made a point to clarify - with the example of the Last Prophet, SAAWS and that his Sunnah, that we Muslims follow, like yesterday, like today and insha'Allah like tomorrow is so living as it ever was. In spite that he does not abide or live physically by our side.


* Just wanted to clarify that the language of Jesus, AS may have been a bit unclear. It is said that he often spoke in parables. Though not always, what I have read on at least some occasions when addressing the Pharisees he was very direct.


* The word 'ghost' that you refered to, seems not to be found in for example the older MSS, Codex Syriacus discovered in 1812 on Mount Sinai by Mrs Agnes S. Lewis (and Mrs. Bensley), the text of 14:26 reads; "Paraclete, the Spirit"; and not "Paraclete, the Holy Spirit". But as I said, I leave this interpretations and belief to you.


* Then it was the time perspective. Jesus, AS said he would return to his disciples, I think while they were still alive, but he did not. Therefore the issue of time may not be that easy to pinpoint. So an interval of 600 years then does not seem very unlikely either. If one think about it.


That's all for now - hope I did not you even more?


Regards

[ronniv93]

Umm, I'm sorry. I should have been more clear. I was referring to the very last post you made:

Assalamu aleikum,
This is not a strange thing but a clear thing that our beloved Prophet, SAAWS said,


From Bukhari, book of Prophets no 652


Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

I wasn't sure of your statement here and what you were saying was "not a strange thing but a clear thing".

[Rehmat]

* Then it was the time perspective. Jesus, AS said he would return to his disciples, I think while they were still alive, but he did not. Therefore the issue of time may not be that easy to pinpoint. So an interval of 600 years then does not seem very unlikely either. If one think about it.

Jesus (as) is not quoted by Bible as saying that. On the other hand, he is quoted as saying “Unless I depart, Father would not send the ‘Paraclytos’ (Comforter).”


Actually, the ‘Paraclytos’, from a linguistic and etymological point of view, does not mean “advocate, consoler, or comforter." For centuries the ignorant Latins and Europeans have been writing the name of Prophet Muhammad "Mahomet," that of Mushi "Moses." Is it, therefore, small wonder that some sturdy Christian monk or Jewish scribe should have written the true name in the corrupted form of Paraklytos? The former means the "most Illustrious, Praiseworthy," but the corrupted form means nothing at all except a standing shame to those who have for eighteen centuries understood it to signify an advocate or a consoler.


Below is a more clear message about the ARRIVAL of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) from Jewish Bible:


"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned." - Isaiah 29:12.


Which was confirmed after almost 20 centuries afterwards:


"The angel came to him and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." - Hadeeth Sahih Bukhari 1:1:003.

[umm Zachariah]

Ronniv,


No problem! We all loose our direction sometimes - the IMPORTANT thing though is to get back on the right track - in a hurry!


What is clear about the hadith is that the Last Prophet, SAAWS says that ALL prophets are paternal brothers, only that their mothers are different. And this of course beacuse they are all CHOSEN by Allah, SWT to forward His Message. He picked them out for their assignment. Therefore their 'status' are alike. And of course the last sentence in this hadith is the Islamic view of things, that all the prophets 'religion' has always been the same, since the fundamental in faith is to worship only One God. Like Islam means, submission. And that is submission to Allah, SWT alone and no one or nothing else.


Regards

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum brother Rehmat,


Thank you for clarifying. So the time issue should not be that difficult then?


Wasalam

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Peace ronniv I am so sorry, i didnt neglect or ignore your question. Somehow i missed this thread.


Today is Eid, I am on since 7.30 and just found the thread, I had my tea and cookies for breakfast after not eating in the morning for 30 days Alhamdulelah.


Insh a Allah I will attend to your good points later... Can I??? thank u.

[ronniv93]

Sure Muslimah, no problem. I'm not exactly sure what type of statement is appropriate from a non-Muslim to a Muslim who is celebrating Eid, but... I hope your celebrations have been wonderful, joyous and enjoyable.


===================


Separate Topic:


I came across this on another thread:

85. And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.

And was wondering how this passage from the Quran with this one:

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

[umm Zachariah]

Salam,


Sorry for running into another open door


I do love these open doors!


Hope this tafsir of Ibn Kathir will give you the understanding to what you ask about. What is the focus on your question I have emphasised by giving it a red
touch


(62. Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians (Sabi'in), whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.)


Faith and doing Righteous Deeds equals Salvation in all Times


After Allah described the condition - and punishment - of those who defy His commands, fall into His prohibitions and transgress set limits by committing prohibited acts, He stated that the earlier nations who were righteous and obedient received the rewards for their good deeds. This shall be the case, until the Day of Judgment. Therefore, whoever follows the unlettered Messenger and Prophet shall acquire eternal happiness and shall neither fear from what will happen in the future nor become sad for what has been lost in the past. Similarly, Allah said,


[أَلا إِنَّ أَوْلِيَآءَ اللَّهِ لاَ خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلاَ هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ ]


(No doubt! Verily, the Awliya' of Allah, no fear shall come upon them nor shall they grieve) (10:62).


The angels will proclaim to the dying believers, as mentioned,


[إِنَّ الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ ثُمَّ اسْتَقَـمُواْ تَتَنَزَّلُ عَلَيْهِمُ الْمَلَـئِكَةُ أَلاَّ تَخَافُواْ وَلاَ تَحْزَنُواْ وَأَبْشِرُواْ بِالْجَنَّةِ الَّتِى كُنتُمْ تُوعَدُونَ ]


(Verily, those who say: "Our Lord is Allah (alone),'' and then they stand firm, on them the angels will descend (at the time of their death) (saying): "Fear not, nor grieve! But receive the glad tidings of Paradise which you have been promised!''). (41:30)


The Meaning of Mu'min, or Believer


`Ali bin Abi Talhah narrated from Ibn `Abbas, about,


[إِنَّ الَّذِينَ ءَامَنُواْ وَالَّذِينَ هَادُواْ وَالنَّصَـرَى وَالصَّـبِئِينَ مَنْ ءَامَنَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الاٌّخِرِ]


(Verily, those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day) that Allah revealed the following Ayah afterwards,


[وَمَن يَبْتَغِ غَيْرَ الإِسْلَـمِ دِينًا فَلَن يُقْبَلَ مِنْهُ وَهُوَ فِى الاٌّخِرَةِ مِنَ الْخَـسِرِينَ ]


(And whoever seeks religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers) (3:85).


This statement by Ibn `Abbas indicates that Allah does not accept any deed or work from anyone, unless it conforms to the Law of Muhammad that is, after Allah sent Muhammad. Before that, every person who followed the guidance of his own Prophet was on the correct path, following the correct guidance and was saved.



Why the Jews were called `Yahud


The Jews are the followers of Prophet Musa, who used to refer to the Tawrah for judgment. Yahud is a word that means, `repenting', just as Musa said, [إِنَّا هُدْنَـآ إِلَيْكَ]


why the christians were called nasara


[مَنْ أَنصَارِى إِلَى اللَّهِ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ أَنْصَارُ اللَّهِ]


("Who will be my helpers in Allah's cause'' Al-Hawariyyun said: "We are the helpers of Allah.'') (61:14)


It was said that they were called `Nasara', because they inhabited a land called An-Nasirah (Nazareth), as Qatadah, Ibn Jurayj and Ibn `Abbas were reported to have said, Allah knows best. Nasara is certainly plural for Nasran.


When Allah sent Muhammad as the Last and Final Prophet and Messenger to all of the Children of Adam, mankind was required to believe in him, obey him and refrain from what he prohibited them; those who do this are true believers. The Ummah of Muhammad was called `Mu'minin' (believers), because of the depth of their faith and certainty, and because they believe in all of the previous Prophets and matters of the Unseen.


The Sabi'un or Sabians


There is a difference of opinion over the identity of the Sabians. Sufyan Ath-Thawri said that Layth bin Abu Sulaym said that Mujahid said that, "The Sabians are between the Majus, the Jews and the Christians. They do not have a specific religion.'' Similar is reported from Ibn Abi Najih. Similar statements were attributed to `Ata' and Sa`id bin Jubayr. They (others) say that the Sabians are a sect among the People of the Book who used to read the Zabur (Psalms), others say that they are a people who worshipped the angels or the stars. It appears that the closest opinion to the truth, and Allah knows best, is Mujahid's statement and those who agree with him like Wahb bin Munabbih, that the Sabians are neither Jews nor Christians nor Majus nor polytheists. Rather, they did not have a specific religion that they followed and enforced, because they remained living according to their Fitrah (instinctual nature). This is why the idolators used to call whoever embraced Islam a `Sabi', meaning, that he abandoned all religions that existed on the earth. Some scholars stated that the Sabians are those who never received a message by any Prophet. And Allah knows best.


[وَإِذْ أَخَذْنَا مِيثَـقَكُمْ وَرَفَعْنَا فَوْقَكُمُ الطُّورَ خُذُواْ مَآ ءَاتَيْنَـكُم بِقُوَّةٍ وَاذْكُرُواْ مَا فِيهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تَتَّقُونَ - ثُمَّ تَوَلَّيْتُم مِّن بَعْدِ ذلِكَ فَلَوْلاَ فَضْلُ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ وَرَحْمَتُهُ لَكُنتُم مِّنَ الْخَـسِرِينَ ]

[radiyah]

Sure Muslimah, no problem. I'm not exactly sure what type of statement is appropriate from a non-Muslim to a Muslim who is celebrating Eid, but... I hope your celebrations have been wonderful, joyous and enjoyable.
===================


Separate Topic:


I came across this on another thread:




<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="2128" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>85. And whoever seeks a religion other than Islâm, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers.

And was wondering how this passage from the Quran with this one:

[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve.

</div></blockquote>

Hi ronni, is this the contradiction that u r always talking about that u read in The Holy Quran ?


Well as I c sister umm masha'Allah did a lot of explanations, and it is I persume clear now and no contradiction, that is what I told u before u have to understand fully The Holy Quran and study its sciences properly then u will understand that there is no contradiction.


Have a nice day


Peace