Strange Things

[Muslimah]

Peace ronnive


Of course u certainly made me feel so special by dedicating a post for me, no one did this before thank u so much


Well I have more points to raise with u, but let us all take a break u enjoy your week end with hubby.


just a point here, of course being a Muslim it is mandantory for me to believe that Mohamed SAW was ummi what u types is perfect. U did learn a lot.


This is the miracle, he was ummi who never left arabia or been on the sea yet the Quran fully describes a storm in the sea.


More on why he taught us to pray. Student usually hold a special position for the teacher. BTW we didnt only learn prayer from him, but even how to eat, sleep, and more. Allah Sent a human Messenger to practically apply Quran so that we dont say o we are humans.


Again have a good trip see u when u come back. May be tell us where u went off

[ronniv93]

Hellllllooooo Everyone!


Hope you all didn't miss me too much.


I'm back from that LONG weekend trip now and trying to recuperate.


We just went a few hours south of Atlanta, GA, where we live. There's a city called Savannah. Very old city; very non-developed. If it wasn't for the college and military base there, probably not many people would even live in the area.


We basically just "camped out" near the stadium where the football game was going on and had a cookout, talked, danced, laughed, met new people. Then, of course, there was the partying at night, which I don't really care for at all, but... My husband likes to dance, so I make that little sacrifice for him.


Good to be back with you all, though.


Take care everyone!

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv,


Nice to have you back sound and safe


When you are up for it, then we will continue the question/answer part.


Hope to see you soon,


Regards

[Muslimah]

OOOO ronivv of course we missed u, we miss the points u raise for us to work and answer. But u seem to be entertained, and why not sacrifice and dance not bad for exercise at least.


welcome backkkkk

[ronniv93]

Many thanks to everyone for the kind words and posts. I know I've neglected this thread for a while, but I'm getting myself back on track now.


Umm_Zachariah, you asked the question:

Yet the verse says ''...he shall give you ANOTHER P...''.
To me ANOTHER means another and not the same, it is not the same expression.


Do you see how I mean? If it were the SAME it would perhaps be 'changed' or 'renewed' or something like that.

When Jesus says this, I take it that He is saying "another" like Himself. Just as Jesus is/was an "advocate", "summoned to one's aid", "an intercessor", "a helper", He would send ANOTHER with the same qualities. These definitions are all in relation to the word <b>Comforter</b>


He tells us what the difference is in verse 17. that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.






Jesus was ascending back to Heaven, while the Holy Spirit would be given to live and dwell with us forever.

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv,


Thanks for replying.


So to ME this is rather clear, since you say that this 'another' shall be like him, so it then has to be a PHYSICAL person, with the same qualities. For a non-visible and a visiable cannot be the same, not according to my understanding. And not since the non-visable pointed to here already is and always have been.


Now WHO might that another be....


Some Quranic verses of wisdom:


''Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger; many were the messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how Allah doth make His signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!'' 5:75


''One day will Allah gather the messengers together, and ask: "What was the response ye received (from men to your teaching)?" They will say: "We have no knowledge: it is Thou Who knowest in full all that is hidden." 5:109


Have a nice day!


Regards

[ronniv93]

So to ME this is rather clear, since you say that this 'another' shall be like him, so it then has to be a PHYSICAL person, with the same qualities.

Well, I see that this passage leads you to one conclusion and me to another.


I don't agree that it has to be a physical being. He said another <b>COMFORTER</b>; this is why I gave the definition of this word - because it describes what the disciples were supposed to be looking for.


To ME, it cannot possibly be another physical being because of all the relevant verses about this comforter:


1. John 4:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, <b>that he may abide with you for ever</b>;



Human beings die. They don't "abide" or "live" with anyone forever.


2. John 4:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: <b>but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you</b>.



Whomever Jesus is talking about here was already existent in the disciples, as He indicates in this verse.


Also, Jesus says that the "Spirit of Truth" would be <b>IN THEM</b>. A physical human being cannot be IN other physical beings.


3. <b>But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost</b>, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.



In this passage, Jesus plainly says that the Comforter is the Holy Ghost.


Furthermore, Jesus promises that this Comforter would remind the disciples of all that Jesus said unto them. If this were a human being, he would have had to appear on the scene in the lifetime of the disciples/apostles, but Muhammad came 600 years later. That's a bit too late to try to remind the disciples of anything.


There are also many other passages in the Gospels that speak of the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit.

<b>Lk. 4:1</b> And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
<b>Lk. 11:13 </b>If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?


<b>John 1:33 </b>And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.


<b>John 7:39 </b>(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

For all of these reasons & verses and more, there is absolutely no reason for me to think that a physical person would come. The Book of Acts actually records details about the day the Holy Spirit entered into the disciples. There were 120 people gathered together, all in one accord and praying. Jesus' mother was among these people.


She, along with them, received the Holy Spirit. So, I see the fulfillment and culmination of what Jesus promised would happen.


You have a good day as well!

[ronniv93]

To Muslimah,


You said,

Regarding that Quran does not teach us to pray, look how Allah Commanded Maraim (Mary) to pray exactly the way we do, not sure if u have an idea on how we pray

Well, bowing or prostrating in prayer is fine. I do that at times in prayer as well. Many Christians do. But, there is a lot more that is done in Islamic prayer than just that, like turning your head from one side to another, holding your hands a certain way, I think even the feet have to be in a certain position when you prostrate. I'm talking about all of those things.

See ronniv, as long as Allah Is One and He is the same Allah from the beginning of this life, how can Allah Command a way for worship different through eras? not logical.

You know, that brings up another thought/question in my mind. Apparently, if Islam is true, then there has been a change in the method or manner of worship.


Islam claims to be the "only religion" acceptable to Allah and that all the prophets throughout history were Muslim. Yet, in the OT times, people had to make sacrifices as a result of their sins. But, Islam today rejects such a practice. I know you have the Eid sacrifice, but that is totally different from what the ancient Israelites do.


Another example is that King David sang and played music in worship of God. But, most Muslims believe that music is forbidden.


So, it would appear that some things DID change.


Your thoughts???

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv


Let's agree on that we disagree


''Human beings die. They don't "abide" or "live" with anyone forever''


Very true- BUT the example of the last Prophet, SAAWS is abding and so ever living as it was over 1400 years ago. His Sunnah that we Muslim follow is forever a living example in spite of his physical death. It is like having him by our side.


I know Jesus often spoke in parables so his language is not always to be taken word for word. That Christians have told me, it is not my invention.


I will not argue with you about the holy ghost, since there seems to be different opinions among people that the original text does not say that and that it has been added later, the 'ghost' I mean. So I leave you to your belief there.


Well the perspective of time I don't think is so much to concentrate on. Did not Jesus say he would return very soon, when the diciples still would be alive? That perspective seems to have been overdued a bit.


Thanks for best day wishes - will now concentrate on NIGHT instead, looking for the night that the Qur'an began to be revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, SAAWS.


Take it easy


Regards

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


This is not a strange thing but a clear thing that our beloved Prophet, SAAWS said,


From Bukhari, book of Prophets no 652


Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."


Wasalam