Strange Things

[Rehmat]

To muslimah


Since you warned me to 'back-off' this guy - so I am not going to get involved in her cunningness. However, you can find her 'question' in ANSWERING ISLAM (a Zionist website), which has already been answered in ANSWERING CHRISTIANTY (brother Osama's website). That's why I posted 'Lies about Jesus', which are mostly fabricated by the Jewish writers, he pushed the post down).


Now, coming back to my post - No I believe that only TWO are Divine - Allah Almighty and His Word (Holy Qur'an) - Nothing else is 'holy'. I know for sure that Muslims copied this term (Holy) from our Christian friends who are obsessed with this word. For them, from 'Father' down to Vatican City; everything is 'holy'.


Having said that, however, the Prophet's (pbyh) life is 'perfect, but not divine'. I am aware of the Haddith in which Syedina A'isha (as) is reported as saying 'The Prophet (pbuh) was a walking Qur'an.'


Allah knows the best.


Wa Salaam.

[ronniv93]

Another quick point until later.


Rehmat, I AM NOT A GUY.


Check the profile, dear. I am a wonderfully, happily married WOMAN.

[Rehmat]

Another quick point until later.
Rehmat, I AM NOT A GUY.


Check the profile, dear.  I am a wonderfully, happily married WOMAN.

Gee what happened to the early PROFILES????

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


rehmat I am fully aware of her questions that is why i gave my reply in this sense.


what we aim here for is not to personalize the forum, we dont need to waste time and effort. we just go on and learn, if the poster is abiding by rules, we dont need to dig for his/her personalities we abide by the following ayahs:


"Allah does not forbid you to deal justly and kindly with those who fought not against you on account of religion and did not drive you out of your homes. Verily, Allah loves those who deal with equity."


(Quran 60:8)


"And argue not with the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians), unless it be in (a way) that is better (with good words and in good manner, inviting them to Islamic Monotheism with His Verses), except with such of them as do wrong, and say (to them): "We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you; our Ilah (God) and your Ilah (God) is One (i.e. Allah), and to Him we have submitted (as Muslims)." (Quran 29:46)


and look here:


"And if anyone of the Mushrikoon (polytheists, idolaters, pagans, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah) seeks your protection then grant him protection, so that he may hear the Word of Allah (the Qur'an), and then escort him to where he can be secure, that is because they are men who know not" (Quran 9:6)


As for the hadeeth issue pls refer to the link I gave u so that we dont repeat ourselves


we even dont mind answering regardless of the intention as I said silent members benefit believe me rehamt many embraced Islam just be reading on the site Mash a Allah. So people like ronniv or other non muslim members who come here challenging are actually serving Islam..


welcome to the board rehmat.

[Rehmat]

I don’t like where this discussion may leads. However, you have your ways of preaching and I have my way of defending my Faith.


Now coming to the Verses:


First Verse (60:8) is irrelevant to this subject. However, it allow the Palestinians, Kashmiris, Afghans, and Chechen to wage Jihad against those Jews and Christians who have committed more crimes against them than Hitler.


Second Verse (29:46) doesn’t mean the present day Jews and Christians. It should be read (in its proper historical context) as “Followers of the Law of Moses (as) and the Nazarene” – None of those exist these days.


Third Verse (9:6) has no relation to preaching of Islam. It shows us the ‘rights of Dhimmies’.


Regarding the link – I am afraid I don’t agree with it fully. But then I am not asking others to follow my opinion either.


THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION – Al-Qur’an


I would try to post here once a while – But there are many other Muslim websites, which are swarming with Zionist hacker – waiting to be exposed.


Wa Salaam..

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom rehmat of course u may go and see where u can serve best. And I prefer not to go into discussion with u regarding that our religion is Quran.


ronniv u never answered my point which I re posted here from another thread, I really care to hear your answer about it.


Regarding that Quran does not teach us to pray, look how Allah Commanded Maraim (Mary) to pray exactly the way we do, not sure if u have an idea on how we pray


"O Mary! "Submit yourself with obedience to your Lord (Allah, by worshipping none but Him Alone) and <b>prostrate yourself</b>, and <b>Irkaa'i (bow down </b>etc.) along with Ar-Raaki'oon (those who bow down etc.)." (Quran 3: 43)


The underlined parts of the Ayah are positions we take during prayer. If it means anything it means that the exact same manner of prayer was commaned and practiced throughout life of mankind including Mariam who worshiped Allah according to the dogma of Moases. Ibreheem prayed the same. See ronniv, as long as Allah Is One and He is the same Allah from the beginning of this life, how can Allah Command a way for worship different through eras? not logical.


If u go to the link u will lean more, but as for the excellent point u brought of someone else has to teach the new Muslim how to pray. Sobhan Allah, this manner actually brings bonds between new and old Muslims, it actually creates relations that are so special when someone teaches another how to connect with Allah for prayer is how we connect with Allah. In such cases the new Muslim is exposed to his/her brothers and sisters who spare no time to help him/her get closer to Allah.


Again I am waiting for an aswer about the point I made to u.

[ronniv93]

Muslimah, this entire post is dedicated to you. Don’t you feel special?


I’m kidding with you. *smile *


Okay, to clearly answer your questions”

Could not u see her question is if the Quran was complete why did we have to learn prayer in Sunnah.

I believe this is a legitimate question to ask. Others, I’m sure, have asked the same question. I’ve even known of other Muslims who had this same question. So, I was really just trying to understand; not to imply anything one way or another.

If a Muslim attacks Quran as u brought in the other link then he is not a Muslim.

I sort of decided to leave alone the issue of the textual history of the Quran for the time being, as that can become a VERY lengthy discussion with everyone having to go away and check source of information, verify things, etc. I don’t believe, however, as you say; I don’t believe that this author was in any way attacking the Quran. Did you get a chance to read a little bit of his book? He comes across as a very true Muslim; he never implies that the Quran is anything less than the very words of Allah. He cites many books, articles by other Muslims in his bibliography section. He defends the belief that there has never been a change in any doctrine of Islam at all.

In the anti Islam sites, they even dont fight in a logical way, but what they do for people like u, is they post Ayahs from Quran but missing parts.

Well… I feel the same way about anti-Christian sites. Quite illogical and the "evidence" is usually weak, at best. But, that’s another issue, right? Anyway, I know that anti-anything sites can be biased and can tend to turn people off. That’s why you won’t see me posting very much from them. The site I posted from was a pro-Islam, pro-Muslim site.

Also I will appreciate if u tell us why u r here?

I think I answered this in an earlier post. If insufficient, let me know.

Obviously u read Quran, u feel somehow insecured specially with reverts around u, telling u u might be wrong.

I don’t agree with this statement. I don’t even know anyone on this site, yet, who’s reverted except Anyabwile and there’s one other person, I believe, who may have mentioned it.


To be honest with you, the majority of the “revert” (i.e., from Christian to Muslim) stories I’ve heard or read usually only solidified in my mind what I believe already. If I keep reading those, they'll just help make me stronger as a Christian. I mean, it's funny and yet sad at the same time to read some of them. Most of the time, the people show such a pitiful lack of understanding of even some basic Christian doctrines that I have to wonder if they ever actually STUDIED or were ever truly Christian in the first place.


Especially the people who say things like, "I always went to church, got baptized," yada... yada... yada... Well, if they knew even something basic about the faith, they would know that THAT does not make you a Christian.


I know there are claims of former priests and ministers who converted, too, but guess what? That ALONE means nothing to me. A lot of THEM had the "silliest" questions and doubts in their mind regarding the Bible that I have to wonder if they're lying or not about their position.


So, I look for answers for MYSELF, because other people’s stories have been so unconvincing to me. Anyway, let me get off this point for now.

the QURAN WAS NOt WRITTEN by Mohamed peace and prayer be upon him. It was revealed from Allah to him

Wasn’t clear with my words. This is what I meant.


BTW, on this point, are you of the belief that Muhammad was illiterate? I hear different interpretations of the word, I think it’s <i>ummi</i>??? Something like that. Sorry, I can’t remember it exactly.

u never answered this point:
ronniv make up your mind:


(To me, Jesus Christ *is* the Word of God. He is described as the Son of God in the Gospels; not as some physical son as if our Creator had some sort of intercourse with a human being to produce Him. I believe that Jesus Christ has always existed and always will. He came to be the mediator of a new covenant and redemeed mankind by being the sinless, spotless sacrifice for our sins.)


(For the Christian, Jesus is/was God manifest in the flesh.)


Now which is which

He is all of the above and more.


Jesus is the Word of God, according to John chapter 1. Everything He spoke was an expression of God’s word and will.


He is God manifested in the flesh also. When we say this, we mean that Jesus’ essence was Divine. He had ability DIRECTLY as a result of his very nature being holy, pure and Divine. He was never created; Jesus has always existed as He said with His own mouth. Jesus was the only person in history to never sin in thought, word or deed. He was perfect in everything. There can be none perfect except God, thus this is further proof to me that Jesus was Divine.


The title “Son of God” is an expression of Jesus’ relationship with God the Father. Jesus WILLINGLY submitted to God the Father in coming to earth to be the propitiation for man’s sins.

The expression "Son of God", is an analogical term.  It indicates origin, a close association, or identification.  In Christian theology it describes the relationship of two persons of the triune God.  It expresses an intimate relationship between two persons:  God the Father, and God the Son - Jesus the Messiah.

Jesus was prophet, priest, king, savior... I could go on and on about the names, titles and authority that Jesus has.

[umm Zachariah]

Salam Ronniv,


There is another unanswered question hanging in the air in this same forum room under 'The Prophet's name' but seems to fit rather well in under this issue to 'Strange things'. Do you mind if I repeat it here?


''So let me put it this way "And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Periqlytos, that he may stay with you for ever".


Christians tell me that this Periqlytos is the Holy Spirit. At the same time they also tell me that this same spirit is one of the unities in the trinity. And I am also told that the trinity is the same as the one God.


Christianity also teaches that God is Everlasting, has no beginning nor end, just like Islam teaches.


Still what is explained to me by Christians concerning this verse is that it is the Holy Spirit, one of the unities in the trinity is to be sent for. And the question arises - HOW can THAT spirit be sent for or shall be given, since it is already there, and always have been, according to Christianity?


Regards''

[ronniv93]

This is awful. It's 5:57a.m. where I am and I'm awake reading through discussion boards. LOOL. Actually been awake since 3a.m.


Hey Umm_Zachariah, I saw your post and wanted to reply (since I'm up anyhow) as I may not have another chance to be here until Monday. Big day for me today!Then, I go out of town with the hubby for the weekend plus I just found out that the division of my company I work for is being sold to a bigger, stronger company so I'm excited!


I know you didn't ask for all that, but I see this as SUCH a blessing from God and just... perfect! I have a chance to make more money, have better benefits, I can bless others with the increase that God is giving me. I'm just excited and so this is my testimony of God's goodness and greatness and yet another example of how wonderful He is.


We may not agree on everything but I think we can at least agree on this: God is GREAT!


==========================

''So let me put it this way "And I will ask the Father, and he shall give you another Periqlytos, that he may stay with you for ever".

Quick point: The Greek word there is actually <b>paracletos</b>.

Christians tell me that this Periqlytos is the Holy Spirit. At the same time they also tell me that this same spirit is one of the unities in the trinity. And I am also told that the trinity is the same as the one God.

The <b>paraclete</b> IS indeed the Holy Spirit as Jesus Himself said in John 14:26. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.

Still what is explained to me by Christians concerning this verse is that it is the Holy Spirit, one of the unities in the trinity is to be sent for. And the question arises - HOW can THAT spirit be sent for or shall be given, since it is already there, and always have been, according to Christianity?

God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - never created, never ending, no beginning. Yes, the Holy Spirit has always been in existence, but HOW the Spirit has operated IN and AMONG mankind has not always been the same.


In the Old Testament, for example, the Holy Spirit would sometimes COME UPON a person - usually a prophet, priest or king - for only a period of time, enabling them to do what God ordained for them to do.


But the Holy Spirit did not permanently DWELL INSIDE of man.


When a person becomes a Christian, the Holy Spirit takes up permanent residence within them. This is available to all who seek and ask and is not restricted to some special class of people. Not restricted to prophets, etc. And the Holy Spirit gives people different gifts like prophesying, speaking with other tongues, healing, gift of teaching or service, etc., etc.

[umm Zachariah]

Salam Ronniv,


Then have a nice day!


I would add Allah, SWT is greatEST!


Thanks for your answers but I still feel the most important in this verse is left unanswered. You said this,


''God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit - never created, never ending, no beginning. Yes, the Holy Spirit has always been in existence, but HOW the Spirit has operated IN and AMONG mankind has not always been the same.''


Yet the verse says ''...he shall give you ANOTHER P...''.


To me ANOTHER means another and not the same, it is not the same expression.


Do you see how I mean? If it were the SAME it would perhaps be 'changed' or 'renewed' or something like that.


Regards