Pigs on buses

[Muslimah]

(Assalam) Ibn

again till u back

look at this Ayah:

"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allâh, and those who disbelieve, fight in the cause of Tâghût (Satan).[1] So fight you against the friends of Shaitân (Satan). Ever feeble indeed is the plot of Shaitân (Satan)." (Quran 4:76)

This is the criteria, u can not equate those who fight in the cause of Allah (if they do, I know it is a condition) with those who fight in the cause of satan.

[phatmonky]

So Muslimah, you support suicide bombings as a proper means of defense, if done so in the name of allah?

Does this extend to using children in suicide bombings as well?

[Muslimah]

Phat I am not supporting or opposing, this issue specailly is only judged by Allah. I am not Allah, I can never determine what is correct. But if we go Islamic way.

Women and children should not be killed during war.

I was just trying to tell Ibn we can not equate both sides calling them both terrorists. Phat everything in Islam depends on intention.

If the intention is for any other than Allah the deed is not accepted.

Even prayer imagine. If u pray to let people see u and say o wow he/she is a very religious person. Then tough luck u got your reward from humans like u in this world. nothing in the day after

[Muslimah]

o and phat, the criteria for us is scholars opinion.

In this regard, they had different views, some said it is halal (lawful) others said no it is not jihad.

For me I simply stop and say may Allah allow them to do jihad correctly ameen. Because it is a pity to loose a chance. In all cases we are going to die, so if u r able to attain a better position in the Day After, this will be the issue

[naseeha]

As far as i know of the issue... the scholars differ alot on this issue... there are those who say it is halaal and those who says that it is totally haraam...

It is also very noteworthy that of all the opinions that i have heard those who say that these <i>martyrdom missions</i> are halaal also say that it is only allowed in this situation... as far as i know the ruling by those who have studied only apply to this specific situation because of their position...

I am no scholar, and i cannot issue an opinion on this... however i must admit that for those who say that it is halaal i have not seen their daleel... if anyone can produce it then alhamdulillah...

there is a principle in fiqh that says.... "necessity makes hated deeds lawful" In other words we are allowed to do haraam acts if it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY... e.g. eating swine to save our lives...

In all applications of this principle of fiqh i have only seen the word "necessity" meaning "to save one's life" ... i have never heard it being used to justify suicide bombings....

my dad and i argue on this alot but i have not seen the proof for is sooo i cannot agree with it... all that i can do is make du'a for my brothers and sisters and hope that allah guides them and grants them victory in this jihaad....

[honeycomb]

<i>Originally posted by Intuition </i><b>ps:  suicide bombers are not martyrs. Not according to our religion islam, there is a huge difference between jihad and suicide bombers. </b>

i definitely agree. i'm very sorry for the palestinians, but... i don't think suicide is the way. coz i never heard Prophet Mohammed SAW ordering suicide bombers for the Quraisy, even when muslims were tortured. plus, in the Quran God says He hates the unjust murder. thus, if we blow up a bus & kill innocent people, who might not have anything to do with the Israeli army & who might be a believer... isn't that unjust murder? that's a big sin, isn't it...

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by honeycomb </i><b>i definitely agree. i'm very sorry for the palestinians, but... i don't think suicide is the way. coz i never heard Prophet Mohammed SAW ordering suicide bombers for the Quraisy, even when muslims were tortured. plus, in the Quran God says He hates the unjust murder. thus, if we blow up a bus & kill innocent people, who might not have anything to do with the Israeli army & who might be a believer... isn't that unjust murder? that's a big sin, isn't it... </b>

This is an attitude that will gain sympathy and understanding from the world, for the Palestian cause. And for those Palestians that reject the suicide bombings, I truly feel sympathy, and look forward to a future of peace for their own country.

I personally, cannot, in anyway, find it to be okay for the Palestians to use suicide bombings. It only justifies anything that Israel does.

The thought that it is okay for one group to do something, but not another, because of the devine deity for who they appear to be fighting is a logical fallacy. From a non-bias outside party, we all know that both sides are equally guilty. However, in someway because the Palestinians have chosen a particular religion, they are excused as simply making "human errors", while the Israelis are fighting for Satan because they are not attacking in the name of Islam. I do not undertand the rationalizing of what seems to be a clear double standard.

[Muslimah]

<i>Originally posted by phatmonky </i><b>while the Israelis are fighting for Satan because they are not attacking in the name of Islam. I do not undertand the rationalizing of what seems to be a clear double standard. </b>

as salam alykom Phat

I know u will feel this way, but at first before searching who is right and who is wrong, u need to examine Who Is Allah? In order to be able to really comprehend this point.

[radiyah]

I do not undertand the rationalizing of what seems to be a clear double standard.

Speaking of double standards phat, u should ask this question to the governement of the united states, to MR jw. Bush, isn't he playing double standards in the middle east, or am I mistaken:rolleyes: . When it comes to Israel it has the right for everything, when it comes to muslims and arabs, they have no right for anything except to steal our land and corrupt our morals.

And who is mistaken, palestinians whose land is stolen in the name of the Torah. the torah says they have no right for it. So

in what cause are they fighting may Iask?

:confused:

[NaSra]

i definitely agree. i'm very sorry for the palestinians, but... i don't think suicide is the way. coz i never heard Prophet Mohammed SAW ordering suicide bombers for the Quraisy, even when muslims were tortured. plus, in the Quran God says He hates the unjust murder. thus, if we blow up a bus & kill innocent people, who might not have anything to do with the Israeli army & who might be a believer... isn't that unjust murder? that's a big sin, isn't it...

Asalamalaykum


Agreed Honeycomb


<i>and Allah knows best</i>