Pigs on buses

[radiyah]

Dear intuition, I am not here to win a debate, yes it is haram to kill one self and commit suicide, that is true, it is haram to kill civilians it is true, but I watch many relegious programs, on saudi chanel and Iqraa and the scholars say that they have the right and this is not suicide(and their fatwa on this only regarding the palestenians, and not other suicide bombers, like 9/11 and the madrid explosion, and what ever like it, but this is the palestenians land, the jews have no right to live in it, they stole it, and they are in state of war with them, with all Islam, and no one of the arab or muslim world leaders are doing anything to stop what is hapening to them, money sent to them taken by others, I do not want to mention names, so he has no other way to fight, when your house is blown your sister raped your mother and father killed, your new born baby killed, what would u do then intuition, just sit and say yes come and kill me too I will be very happy and pleased, in palestine and now Iraq((yesterday I saw an interview with a saudi doctor who entered Iraq to help them, and he said frightning facts of what is hapeining there and not being showed or not allowed to be shown by media, he is a doctor at the saudi hospital in jeddah, he says the americans are not allowing food or medical aid to be sent to faloja, or any other part in Iraq, they even bombed the malyzian red crescent who were carying lots of medecin and aids for the Iraqi's we only c what the jews and americans want us to c through the media, no one knows what is truly happening inside there)), women are being raped, killed also children, and then u tell me they have no right to defend themselves.

I will tell u a story here .On the day of the fto7at when the muslims were spreading Islam, There was one castle that the muslims could not open, so one muslim said to his companions carry me and throw me into it and i will open it for u or die, and may Allah accept me as shaheed, there was a small hole in the castle,they threw him, and it was opened and the muslims won, and he knew he might die, but he is giving his life for a sacred purpose for Islam to spread, and it was not conciderd suicide, I do not remember the sahaby name right now or in what battle, I will look it up for u and post it.

and also in surrat Al-burooj

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=85&tid=57727

read here the surra and the tafseer, u will c how the muslims at that time were forced to throw themselves in the ditch of fire, and the the story of the pious boy, he knew he will die, but on the other side everybody embraced Islam. u will tell me it is not the same concept, when blowing yourself up, I will still insist and tell u it is all in Allah's hand, he decides if they are martyrs or not and it depends on their intention.

So we will leave it to Allah, and we do not say if they are martyrs or not.

We just pray that may Allah accept them.

If I am right it is from Allah, if I am mistaken is from my Ignorance and little knowledge.

Wasalam 'laykom wa rahmat Allah wa barakatuh

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by radiyah </i><b>he says the americans are not allowing food or medical aid to be sent to faloja, or any other part in Iraq,</b>

We are changing the thread, but the least you could do is give me, as an American, the respect of telling the entire story in context (or perhaps it is this doctor who does not wisht to give me that respect).

Food and medicine stopped going to Falluja when ALL traffic stopped going to Falluja - why did this happen?? Because 4 American workers who were BRINGING food and medicine to the area were killed, burned, mutilated, and hung for the disgusting people in the area to see.

People complain that food and medicine is not going - yet when it was, they killed these contractors.

Since the ceasefire, shipments have continued, but let's try to make sure statements are whole,and not just demonizing.

[Ibn_kumuna]

Salaam Alaikum!

When all else fails, send in the pork!

Israel's new tactic to "suppress" terror is of course going to spark outrage amongst the Muslims in Palestine and elsewhere in the pax Islamica.

But, has anyone questioned the logics of this? Placing pigs on the bus will not only prevent peaceful Muslims from entering, but will also defect observant and orthodox Jews. It baffles me, really. However, the response to that, is, that as long as it's in "defense", there's nothing wrong with using the pig as a defensive stratagem.

Do I believe that's true? Nope! These are the same Rabbi's and Judeologues who have repetitively tried to "liberalize" or better put, "G-rate" an "X-rated" and pornographic biblical past. I'm not surprised by this tactic. In a similar vein, demolishing homes of Palestinians goes against Jewish law. Did those Torah abiding Israeli's (the radicals) condemn such? Nay! I don't suspect the pig fiasco will subside either.

More seriously, the terrorists believe they're on a divine mission. Porky Pig won't stutter or stagger their unequivocal pursuit to their teleological end.

Ibn

[Dan]

Bismillah

Phat you are now generalizing as well when you say... "and hung for the disgusting people in the area to see." Not everyone is participating in the fighting. In fact there are people who are trying to leave but if a man who the US deems is battle aged is with them, he cannot leave. (Source: An article from my local paper.) Families thus decide to stay together instead of being seperated and possibly never seeing each other again.

I agree that we should try not to lump people into one group. We must also do this with the residents of Fujallah. There ARE people caught in the middle of this violence who want nothing more than to just escape.

If I percieved your statement in correctly, then please let me know. Appreciate it.

Peace.

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by Dan </i><b></b>

If I percieved your statement in correctly, then please let me know.  Appreciate it.  

Peace.

You did. When I said 'for the disgusting people to see' I did not mean the general populous of the area, but instead, it is only logical that the bodies were hung for two groups:

1>Those that do not violently oppose the coalition, and they were hung as an insult/threat/etc. Men with guns threatened a nurse who attempted to take the body down.

2>Those that violently oppose the coalition. Clearly, as a sign to them that attacking works, and to give whatever sick gratification comes to that group. This is the disgusting group I speak of.

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom

To the best of my knowledge, and I am no scholar, we are commanded not to mutilate bodies even of non muslims during war battles. But humans make mistakes. May Allah allow us all to improve.

[radiyah]

More seriously, the terrorists believe they're on a divine mission.

Excuse me Ibn, do u consider palestenians as terrorists, u being a muslim?:confused:

We are changing the thread, but the least you could do is give me, as an American, the respect of telling the entire story in context (or perhaps it is this doctor who does not wisht to give me that respect).

Phat, the american army fired at the malyzian red crescent when it started entering from the Kuwaity boarders, long before reaching Faluja even. And what happened to those americans is disgusting, no body accepts it, not in any relegion or beleif, they are criminals yes, and I wish they catch them because I think that these are Sadam's men, because no one is more inhumane

than his men. But still the americans are not dealing with this situation in the correct way. Look at the japanese governement how they succeeded in releasing their captives. I dont know why u always take things very personally, we do not hate american people, on the contrary we hate no one, we have thousands of muslim american brothers and sisters, even in the american army, we know that there are muslims there, I really feel sorry for them, having left their home and family never knowing they will go back home or not, it is just what your governement is doing that is all Phat. from one war to another, when is this going to end I dont know. unless u are happy with what is Bush doing, then I have nothing else to say.

Peace

[Muslimah]

(bismillah

(Assalam) Radiyah

I am not to speak on behalf of Ibn but I just would like to clarify something. He means that in Islamic jihad we must avoid killing women and children that is why he lablelled them as terrorists.

Am I not correct Ibn?

[Ibn_kumuna]

Salaam Alaikum

I think Muslimah answered the question from radiyah. I only meant those who kill the innocent. I believe there are loads of Palestinians who are "freedom" fighters and take the battle to the IDF; I do not object to that. We must reach an Islamic end by Islamic means. When we sacrafice our values at the alter of emotion, then we become no better than Israel.

If I offended the Palestinians or you individiaully, radiyah--please forgive my approach.

Ibn

[Muslimah]

(Walikum) Ibn

ok but let me raise a point here, which I mentioned to u on a different thread. Ribat is one of the highest forms of jihad which is to protect Muslim land borders against non muslim attacks.

this is one, on a hadeeth it says what means that one who dies defending his land is a shaheed, defending his money is a shaheed or defending his a`rd which is honor is a shaheed. So we are talking about totally two different groups. Comes now to killing women and children. Yes this is a mistake, but even during the companions, they made mistakes during jihad. They were not thrown out of Allah ' s mercy or had their level of strive diminished.

we must never put Muslims and non Muslims in one category when talking about this issue specially. Palestine of all Muslim land is also different due to the Aqsa.

Hope I am making sense to u. I have more to say, but dont want to prolong the post.