04-08-2007, 09:07 PM
Assalam Alikum
First of all in order to be able to reply the respected "Teh_Curious" Should stop referring to the Talmud because it is simply was written 70 years after the death of prophet moses, and the idea here is that these bishops or Gospels used to write what there individual wishes and fantasies are. so in order to have a benificial discussion you should eliminate referring to these books because these are the true lies that are devastating the world today.
And regarding the trinity issue "God's Holy Spirit is present in all places at once" we muslims also believe in this thing but to elaborate this point in short we have two cases:
1. if we have more than one God and both the Gods are equal in everything then the presence of one of them is enough because if there were to Gods and as our Quran tells us the every God will do what he thinks is best and by this the universe would have never existed because we the human being are fighting over common property and non of us satisfied at the end.
2. if there were two Gods and one of them is less degree in his power or domination then it is not considered a God and it is simply one creature of the more powerful God.
and regarding the name of Allah whether it was this name or Yahweh then let me tell youthat it is in english God and in sansikriti or urdu Khuda and this should not be a point of disagreement.
And regarding the "begotten" issue let me tell you that muslims never believed that there was physical sexual interact between God and Mary but our Quran tells us that the issue of Creating Jesus is similar to creating Adam and this is elaborated extensively in our holy Quran.
Believing in Jesus is must for muslims and any one who denies is not a muslim, and you should look around you and see the globe, why the Judaism is still having less than 30 million followers only this is originally because the principle and foundations of the new judaism (which is dependent upon wrong Talmud) are not able to convince people to convert to it besides the limitations the impose over who should join us or not, will religion is not a forum or club you have to pay annual fees or meet certain criteria to join it religion is a complete methodology of life you just have to have clear heart and the good deeds. same goes to christianity, the christian themselves are turning to be secularists and day by day the go away from their religion because gospels and bishops who came after jesus mis-wrote the holy bible on weak bonds and temporary interrsets. this is why islam is the fastest growing religion inside the western countries itself.
in fact i am just a regular muslim and in order to reply to all the "lies" you mentioned in your topic it requires careful research but by this i hope i have opened a channel between you and me in order that you keep on posting your lets say clarifications and i will do my best to reply you.
Our holy Quran tells us that this way of arguing between any to persons will never lead to an end , okay you have your own beliefs i do respect, and i have my own belief you have to respect it. you think that there is wrong in my belief it is your duty to tell my that this is wrong and i am obliged to listen to you and vice versa.
i would like to conclude with this and i hope in future that we lay down a short subject for discussion in which i put my ideas and you put your ideas without needing to elaborate on every single idea, unless you have better ideas to do this job i will be glad to hear from you.