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Islamic concepts towards Christianity (part IV) - Teh_Curious - 04-08-2007
Islam is built on subtle lies which have been concocted by evil men in order to maintain cohesion and discipline within their robber band. Islam is the only religion that says that Jesus did not die on the cross. Islam denies this historical fact about Jesus which therefore negates the salvation given us by the Son of God's painful death and miraculous resurrection from the dead. Even the Jewish Sanhedrin (High Religious Court) in Jerusalem admits Jesus died there. In addition to the writers of the 4-Gospels and Josephus, the Jewish 1st century historian (See Antiquities 18-63) -- the Jewish Babylonian Talmud (Sanhedrin 43a) from the Tannaitic Period recorded: "On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [the Nazarene] was hanged".... This means on a wooden cross
<b> The Miracle Surrounding the Death of Jesus</b>
Also, A pagan historian by the name of Thallus, who lived shortly after the resurrection of Christ (about A.D. 52) wrote concerning a miraculous darkness that covered the earth at the Passover of A.D. 32 and attempted to explain it as an eclipse of the sun.
Islam claims to be a religion of the people of "The Book", or Ahel al-Kitab, which would have one believe it is a continuance of that Book God revealed to His Jewish Prophets. If it were, it would not deny what is in that "Book", especially after confirming the authority of the Jewish Torah and Christian Gospels. If Islam was true, Muslims would know the name of the true God is not Allah, but Yahweh.
See more about Mohammed found in the Bible Codes . These matrixes say: "Mohammed Profanes My Holy Name" and "Mohammed, Blaspheming, Demon".
To be saved - you only have to know One name and it is NOT Allah. The name of Allah is found nowhere in "the book" (Torah or Gospels of Jesus). <b>"Allah" was an old pagan tribal "moon god" in the Mecca area.</b>
Muslims are wrongly taught about the Trinity. The Trinity has nothing to do with how many gods there are. It only has to do with God's nature and the three persons/natures that make up the one God. Christians know there is only one God, but this God has 3 persons (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). This is a mystery. "Can a dog understand the nature of man?" Likewise, we only have proofs of God's three natures. God is spirit and light. God's Holy Spirit is present in all places at once.
Muslims have to get over the lie that God cannot begot. He surely did. He did it in "the book". Look to Genesis where God says;
Genesis 1:26 (4000 Before Christ / 4570 yrs before Muhammad):
"And God said, Let us make man in our image...."
Proverbs 30:4 (700 Before Christ / 1270 yrs before Muhammad): "Who hath ascended up into heaven or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in His fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the Earth? What is His name, and what is His son's name, if thou canst tell?"
(Psalm 2:11-12) Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16
Muslims generally mistakenly conceive of this term "begotten" as meaning a literal, physical, sexual act between God and Mary. The Christian Church never taught that. Islamic mullahs and imams are those who teach that lie in order to confuse. "Begotten" here does not concern physical birth.
It's equally hard to understand to some that a person is also tripartite. God created us with 3 distinct but entirely separate "parts". But, nevertheless, it is true. We have a physical body, a spirit and a soul (intellect & will).
And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thessalonians 5:23
If Muslims would read their own Qur'an they would realize Allah can and DID do such a thing.
Sura 3:47 - She (Mary) said: My Lord! when shall there be a son (born) to me, and man has not touched me? He said: Even so, Allah creates what He pleases; when He has decreed a matter, He only says to it, Be, and it is.
Note: Begotten means "come from" without necessarily being created. Before the beginning of time, Jesus, who is also called the Word of God and the Logos, came from God the Father. Logos means the divine Word of God; the second person in the Trinity (incarnate in Jesus). God is Spirit and loving light! Exactly how Jesus and the Father are one is a mystery. Try and picture two spot lights focused on the same spot. These separate lights merge as one.
<b> Two Examples of the Father & Son as One:</b>
Muslims have this erroneous vision of Allah as carnal body. It is often for this reason that Muslims cannot envision God miraculously overshadowing Mary to conceive a Son. The concept of "only begotten Son", meaning not made, but one and the same substance with the Father --usually escapes Muslims entirely.
<b> Words of Jesus Himself:</b>
<i>Muslims do deny Jesus</i>
1 John 2: 22-23 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
Matthew 7:15
"Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
15:9
They worship Me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commands of men."
15:14
Leave them alone! They are blind guides. And if the blind guide the blind, both will fall into a pit."
24:24
False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Christians were told in the Bible to be on-guard and that the Antichrist will not only just be a man who appears shortly before the Lord Jesus returns, but also a movement (Islam) which denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Son of God. Islam is adamant in its denial of the deity of Jesus.
It is easy to overlook, but followers of Islam place their eternal salvation entirely on the whimsical sayings of only one single man - the imperfect and violent man Muhammad.
Christianity and Judaism is heavily corroborated by many different prophets and apostles of God. Additionally, Christianity and Judaism abound with many, many miracles, all witnessed by throngs of people. Physical evidence such as 5,300 original manuscripts confirming the New Testament (Injeel) are still here to read.
<b> The fact of the matter is; not one individual or document can corroborate Muhammad's testimony. </b>
As prophecies go, Muhammad simply made none!
Muhammad made only 1 very vague utterance (guess) that wishfully might be considered a prophecy. This was when he said that in a few years the Romans would win a battle. No time or place was even given. As to any signs that Muhammad was divinely inspired, Muhammad admitted twice he could do no miracles.
An Apostle of God must prove his mission by working miracles.
The life of Jesus on earth abounded with astounding miracles. The Qur'an itself declares in Sura 5:110 that Jesus performed miracles. And the Qur'an itself admits twice that Muhammad said he could do no miracles (Suras 13:7 and Sura 17:90-94 ). Jesus made the deaf hear, the lame walk, the blind see, the dumb speak. He multiplied 5 loaves of bread to feed 5000 people, and he cured lepers and many other diseased people, and raised the dead with his word only. One woman was cured by just touching Jesus' garment. Jesus walked on water, caste out demon spirits, raised his own self from the dead, and finally rose to heaven in front of many witnesses.
The so-called "Prophet" of Islam lived an extremely sinful life of raping, plundering and murdering for profit. His entire purpose for the Qur'an (Koran) was simply to increase his personal self esteem, attain superior status, and for maintaining discipline and cohesion within his robber band. An Apostle of God must be a good and righteous man as Jesus was and Muhammad was not.
Symptomatic of the state of Muhammad's soul during his lifetime is the strikingly similar behavior regarding the cross that demons have demonstrated over and over.
Muhammad had a diabolical aversion to the form of the cross.
According to Al Waqidi, Muhammad would break everything brought into the house with a shape of the cross on it. Additionally, Ahmad ibn Hanbal (A.D. 855) said that Muhammad would foam at the mouth during prayer. Christians should immediately remember the Apostle Mark's telling of Jesus casting a demon out of a boy who was possessed. This demon-possessed boy also showed this symptom of "foaming at the mouth".
More than eight hundred million human beings confess Islam, the religion Muhammad founded. There is no more militant movement on earth equal to Islam. No religion teaches hatred more than Islam. Jesus said; "many false prophets will rise up and deceive man." Islam has managed to turn billions of people away from the true Word of God, and not merely by its distraction of the truth. But also by its outright denial of the truth.
<b>There is never any hatred preached against Muslims or anyone when Christians and Jews Worship God. This is not true in Islam. Is it?</b>
Here is an interesting January 2007 article about a show on British television where undercover "Muslims" were sent into mosques during a 12 month period, and tape what was being said. Among other things, it shows clerics at a number of leading British mosques exhorting followers to prepare for jihad, to hit girls for not wearing the hijab, and to follow Islamic law over UK law. Some are praising the Taliban. In response to the news that a British Muslim solider was killed fighting the Taliban, the Muslim speaker declares: “The hero of Islam is the one who separated his head from his shoulders.” Another speaker says Muslims cannot accept the rule of non-Muslims. “You cannot accept the rule of the kaffir,” Dr Ijaz Mian tells a meeting held within the mosque. “We have to rule ourselves and we have to rule the others.”
- Sura 9:5 - But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war);
- Surah's 8:39; 9:5; 9:29: 47:4 in the Muslim Qur'an are 'divine' commandments to persecute Jews and Christians, to defeat them in battle and then to consign them either to slavery or to death.
Jesus Never Spoke of Another true Prophet to Follow Him
Islam vainly tries to gain legitimacy over other, older religions, by creating a scene in which the former prophets agree to Mohammad's mastery.
The Comforter
Muslims often deliberately claim that Jesus spoke of Muhammad as that prophet who would follow him, or that Muhammad was the "Comforter" Jesus promised would come. The references Muslims vainly cling to about this are mentions of a comforter to follow Jesus in John chapters 14, 15, and 16. Both of these are more Islamic lies. Jesus did warn us that false prophets (Muhammad) with false Gospels (Qur'an) would follow Him, and try to deceive many.
The Comforter Jesus spoke of was the Holy Spirit who filled the Apostles while they gathered together on Pentecost. While gathered together they all began speaking in foreign tongues. The Comforter/Holy Spirit/Ruach HaKodesh also imparted the ways of God on Mary, the Apostles of Jesus, and about 120 other Disciples that day. Three thousand came into the Church that same day. Jesus' followers then immediately took Him seriously and they went out and began preaching the Gospel. The Comforter was NOT Muhammad. In John 14:26 the comforter is specifically identified as the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in the name of Jesus Christ. There is no mention of any Allah, Muhammad, or any prophet to follow Jesus in any Christian or Jewish Holy Books.
"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you" (John 14:26).
The "Comforter" refers to the Holy Spirit who descended on the Apostles of Jesus at Pentecost, just as Jesus said.
This is another attempt by Islam to gain some sort of credibility. Jesus foretold the coming of the "Comforter", which is the Holy Spirit.
Jesus did not say the following:
`Jesus, the son of Mary, said, O children of Israel, verily I am the Apostle of God sent unto you confirming the law which was given before me, and bringing good tidings of an Apostle who shall come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.' (Sura 7:157)
Note the word Ahmed, of which the name Muhammad is compounded.
Muhammad even disqualified himself as a true Prophet of God.
- Sura 29:27 states clearly that, as far as Allah and the Qur'an are concerned, the only true prophets are those related to Isaac (Ishaq) or Jacob (Yaqoub); yet Muhammad, according to Muslim tradition, is related to Ishmael and not Isaac or Jacob.
The real God (Yahweh) chose to establish His covenant with Abraham and Sarah's son Isaac, instead of with Ishmael, the son of the slave girl Hagar. This choice of Isaac by God is mentioned 5 times, beginning in Genesis 17:18-21. Yet, who did this false Islamic god, Allah adopt? Ishmael! In fact, an important Islamic holiday called Id-al-Adha celebrates the bogus near sacrifice of Ishmael by Abraham in Mecca. Even though there is nothing in scripture suggesting Abraham ever set foot in Arabia.
Herein lies another prophetic truth! God rejected Ishmael and Esau because they were "wild donkeys" (Genesis 16:12) and men of the sword (Genesis 27:40). God did promise, however, to make Ishmael a great nation (Arabs). Who can deny that Islam, with its roots in Arabia, has not always acted like psychotic "wild donkeys" and "men of the sword"? I call to mind the rather recent "Cartoon" row with worldwide demonstrations by Muslims. Nothing of the sort occurred in Christendom after Dan Brown published his best selling book of lies known as the "Da Vinci Code".
No prophet of God was ever subject to epileptic fits & uncertainty- like Muhammad was...
We know from Islamic historians that Muhammad's many wives did believe he was a a prophet of Allah, in part, because Muhammad would frequently go into epileptic frenzies and foam at the mouth, while receiving his "revelations". Also, unlike any of the true prophets of Israel, Muhammad would go through prolonged periods of time when he himself thought he was going mad, or that he was possessed by demons. The Hebrew prophets never acted like this. The Hebrew prophets were certain that God (Yahweh) was speaking to them.
What can be rationally thought of the nearly weekly suicide bombings by Muslims, and the very real Muslim psychosis of thinking they will kill every Jew, and then every Christian and Hindu and every other non-believer, who doesn't convert to Islam? I advise Islam to read the real "Book" that says in Jeremiah (Prophet Jeremiah) that "there will be no more Jews on the face of the earth when the moon, the sun and the stars no longer shine."
Islamic concepts towards Christianity (part IV) - Al-fateh - 04-08-2007
what a waste :)
i feel sorry for who will sit down and read all this and try to reply to it
haha!!
Islamic concepts towards Christianity (part IV) - maleksmadi - 04-08-2007
Assalam Alikum
First of all in order to be able to reply the respected "Teh_Curious" Should stop referring to the Talmud because it is simply was written 70 years after the death of prophet moses, and the idea here is that these bishops or Gospels used to write what there individual wishes and fantasies are. so in order to have a benificial discussion you should eliminate referring to these books because these are the true lies that are devastating the world today.
And regarding the trinity issue "God's Holy Spirit is present in all places at once" we muslims also believe in this thing but to elaborate this point in short we have two cases:
1. if we have more than one God and both the Gods are equal in everything then the presence of one of them is enough because if there were to Gods and as our Quran tells us the every God will do what he thinks is best and by this the universe would have never existed because we the human being are fighting over common property and non of us satisfied at the end.
2. if there were two Gods and one of them is less degree in his power or domination then it is not considered a God and it is simply one creature of the more powerful God.
and regarding the name of Allah whether it was this name or Yahweh then let me tell youthat it is in english God and in sansikriti or urdu Khuda and this should not be a point of disagreement.
And regarding the "begotten" issue let me tell you that muslims never believed that there was physical sexual interact between God and Mary but our Quran tells us that the issue of Creating Jesus is similar to creating Adam and this is elaborated extensively in our holy Quran.
Believing in Jesus is must for muslims and any one who denies is not a muslim, and you should look around you and see the globe, why the Judaism is still having less than 30 million followers only this is originally because the principle and foundations of the new judaism (which is dependent upon wrong Talmud) are not able to convince people to convert to it besides the limitations the impose over who should join us or not, will religion is not a forum or club you have to pay annual fees or meet certain criteria to join it religion is a complete methodology of life you just have to have clear heart and the good deeds. same goes to christianity, the christian themselves are turning to be secularists and day by day the go away from their religion because gospels and bishops who came after jesus mis-wrote the holy bible on weak bonds and temporary interrsets. this is why islam is the fastest growing religion inside the western countries itself.
in fact i am just a regular muslim and in order to reply to all the "lies" you mentioned in your topic it requires careful research but by this i hope i have opened a channel between you and me in order that you keep on posting your lets say clarifications and i will do my best to reply you.
Our holy Quran tells us that this way of arguing between any to persons will never lead to an end , okay you have your own beliefs i do respect, and i have my own belief you have to respect it. you think that there is wrong in my belief it is your duty to tell my that this is wrong and i am obliged to listen to you and vice versa.
i would like to conclude with this and i hope in future that we lay down a short subject for discussion in which i put my ideas and you put your ideas without needing to elaborate on every single idea, unless you have better ideas to do this job i will be glad to hear from you.
Islamic concepts towards Christianity (part IV) - Al-fateh - 04-09-2007
my dear brother....
the devil himself rejected islam openly , and had witnessed more than what those people did.
they come to you with a provoking post, do u expect them to care what u write?
they care for nothing but to ridicule ur religion and mock you, dont give them what they want.... with such people we simply ignore them
Islamic concepts towards Christianity (part IV) - Muslimah - 04-09-2007
Bismillah
Quote:my dear brother....
the devil himself rejected islam openly , and had witnessed more than what those people did.
they come to you with a provoking post, do u expect them to care what u write?
they care for nothing but to ridicule ur religion and mock you, dont give them what they want.... <b>with such people we simply ignore them</b>
as salam alykom brother
May be this should have been under your thread in suggestions, however, I see more relevancy here.
See, we are a diverified group of Muslims each has own approach and attitudes. As for myself, this is what i do, the underlined part of your post. But we cannt really force others to follow our steps. Thus, we are trying our best, may Allah Support us all.
Islamic concepts towards Christianity (part IV) - Al-fateh - 04-09-2007
unless u want this site to be a war zone....
where are the muslims who should be educating one another, rather than arguing over nonsense with non-muslims, who dont even want to learn about Islam, but rather mock it...........