Are American and European muslims more liberal?

[Khairan]

So Muslimah, do you agree with Dan's assertion that these later verses abrogate the earlier ones, or would you say that it is more appropriate to think of them as all being in agreement but providing increasingly more specific instructions?

[Muslimah]

2:62 - \"Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, <b>any who believe in God and the Last day
</b>, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.\"Dan, this verse makes it impossible for me to believe that there is only a single path to God.  If He opens Paradise to \"any who believe,\" then surely not just one of the myriad sects of Islam is the \"right\" one.  Indeed, I suspect that all are at least somewhat mistaken in certain beliefs, while right in others.

as salam alykom

Sobhan Allah, actually u r bringing up excellent points for others to benefit.

U know Khairan the Ayah is arabic goes like إن الذين آمنوا والذين هادو till the rest of the ayah till Allah comes to the underlined sentence which I would translate as not any but one who believes and <b>a prounoun of 'them'
</b> is implied here. In other words it is taken for granted that the ayah would be those who believe from among the previous groups in Allah and the Day after the way Allah wants us to believe. Also the word هادو which is translated here as Jews means those who became guided after not believing (from among the jews just as it is mentioned in ""And ordain for us good in this world, and in the Hereafter. Certainly <b>we have turned unto You</b>". (Quran 7:156) the underlined sentence here in Arabic goes like hudna <b>هدنا</b> If u apply this on the word used in the Ayah u brought u will find that it is hadu هادو r u getting the point.

In short the ayahs does not mean the sense u r taking it. But rather a confirmation that any one of the previously mentioned groups who would believe in Allah and the Day after and work righteousness shall be rewarded by Allah in the manner He sees. Just note that Allah in this Ayah didnt mention jannah (heavens) but rather only Said <b>shall have their reward with their Lord </b>

Brother there isnt but one path to Allah ISLAM

[Khairan]

as salam alykom  Sobhan Allah, actually u r bringing up excellent points for others to benefit.

U know Khairan the Ayah is arabic goes like إن الذين آمنوا والذين هادو till the rest of the ayah

Thanks for the Arabic verse, Muslimah. I can't do it with my computer, so I figure I might as well put up the English to help our non-Muslim fellows follow along.

[Muslimah]

So Muslimah, do you agree with Dan's assertion that these later verses abrogate the earlier ones, or would you say that it is more appropriate to think of them as all being in agreement but providing increasingly more specific instructions?

la hawala wala qowata ila billah, brother really the Ayahs are very clear, no need to agree with one or disagree with another.

Brother u seem like to argue, and I join Dan and naseeha again that we are all growing somewhat concerned.

[Khairan]

la hawala wala qowata ila billah, brother really the Ayahs are very clear, no need to agree with one or disagree with another.Brother u seem like to argue, and I join Dan and naseeha again that we are all growing somewhat concerned.

:confused: Huh? I'm asking you if you agreed with what Dan said in his earlier post or not, since it wasn't clear to me from what you just said. How am I arguing?

[Muslimah]

You r welcome any time, just re read the posts again slowly and dont hasten to reply. Just take time to understand them akhi and r u a native arabic speaker?????

[Khairan]

You r welcome any time, just re read the posts again slowly and dont hasten to reply. Just take time to understand them akhi and r u a native arabic speaker?????

I'm not a native speaker, but I am able to read arabic and understand enough of it that I am not totally at the mercy of English translations. I still have a long way to go, though. :learn: :learn: :learn:

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom  Dan allow me to pop in:

<b>Allah, in order to forbade alcohl drinking took a gradual approach</b>.  

<b>The Creator Took in consideration that people at that time were so much into alcohl which would make it difficult to give it up immediately.</b>

1. The first ruling was revealed regarding alcohl was here:
\"They ask you (O Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling.[4] Say: \"In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit.\" (Quran 2:219).

When this was revealed a group of people stopped drinking while others didnt, they said let us just take the beneift therein.

<b>2. then was followed by:
</b>

\"O you who believe! Approach not As-Salât (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter\" (Quran 4:43).

when a companion leaded people for prayer and faulted while reciting surat Kaferoun, so Allah revealed this Ayah.

<b>Still a group stopped and another didnt, they said let us avoid prayer timings
</b>.

<b>3. Until Allah revealed the following Ayah</b>


\"O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), and gambling, and Al-Ansâb[1], and Al-Azlâm (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaitan’s (Satan) handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful.[2] * 91. Shaitân (Satan) wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants (alcoholic drinks) and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allâh and from As-Salât (the prayer). So, will you not then abstain?\" (Quran 5:90-91)

I dont think the way the post is put needs any more comments

[Khairan]

By the way Muslimah, you are totally right - I do like to argue

I find it keeps the mind sharp and exposes obvious flaws in one's reasoning.

But that doesn't mean I'm not interested in learning, so don't be discouraged by my opinionated nature! I <i>am</i> paying attention...



(hafiz)

[Muslimah]

I can see that, and we are all never discouraged, only concerned. Much concerned

and as far as arabic is concerned I am a native arabic speaker, yet still need to learn a lot