Mormon missionaries.

[reepicheep]

<b>SisterJennifer wrote: If somebody says shahada and sincerly believe in it, then that person eventually will be saved from the fire... if we do not associate partners with Allah we will come out of the fire and enter into paradise.</b>


All Shiites (for example, twelvers, Ismailies, Ahmadiyyas) believe the shahada, and they aren't guilty of shirk. Therefore, Sunni muslims believe that all Shiite muslims will eventually end up in heaven?

[SisterJennifer]

I dont know what those people you mention believe or practice and I dont think any of us are in the position of announcing the fate of any muslim.


A muslim should constantly educate himself in his or her religion. If we do this, we will improve ourselves and maybe things we do out of ignorance will change because our understanding of our deen is better.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all!


Hi friends!


I just want you all to know that I've never laughed so hard in my life whilst reading the whole Martin Luther/King Luther/Martin Luther King episode :lol: Of course it's nothing new... most of Wael's threads provide me with comic relief... one of the main reasons why I love him!


Believe it or not, Mormons have a few things in common with Muslims - polygyny/polygymy, denial of the Most Holy Trinity, women's dress code - just to name a few.


Wael, I'm the first to admit that the term "Christian" is used very loosely. For me, being a Christian is more than attaching the name to oneself. Anyone can be called a Christian in theory but it's easier said than done. A Christian is a follower of Christ. In practice, true Christians are few & far between.


However, as a member of the Catholic Church, I believe that Christians of all sorts (sinners, saints, Catholics, Protestants, Mormons etc) as well as non-Christians (including Muslims) are able to be saved through the Redemptive work of Christ, regardless of what name they identify themselves with. So in the wise words of Holy Mother Teresa, "We should encourage Muslims to be good Muslims, Hindus to be good Hindus & Christians to be good Christians", in the best way they know how (with the help of the Holy Spirit - according to Catholicism).


Anyone can talk the talk but it takes a real virtuous person to be Christ-like. & ultimately only God can judge us. Let's try encouraging each other for a change.


Peace & blessings to you all.


<i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i>

[reepicheep]

<b>Faith Hope Charity wrote: I just want you all to know that I've never laughed so hard in my life whilst reading the whole Martin Luther/King Luther/Martin Luther King episode </b>


I agree. I've found that I always experience a certain amount of confusion, amusement, amazement, horror, and discombubulation when holding discussions with Wel_mel_2, but in this particular instance I think Wel_mel_2 has outdone himself.


<b>Faith Hope Charity wrote: most of Wael's threads provide me with comic relief... one of the main reasons why I love him!</b>


Alas, even though I realize we are commanded by Jesus to love everyone, including our enemies, I must sadly admit that the word "love" is not one of the verbs I would use to describe my feelings towards Wel_mel_2. This is definitely an area where I need improvement. Perhaps I should use the Christmas season to try to improve my attitude towards others.


<i><b>"God Bless us, every one." </b></i>

[SisterJennifer]

Reep, you know those comments were meant to patronize, not to be taken sincerely, so why would you even comment on it unless you want to attempt to do the same?


The only thing I cant understand is why you two feel the need for such an approach. Maybe thats supposed to somehow make you look or feel superior or something, but it doesn't.


I am happy that br. Wael has enough class not to either instigate or recipricate in such a manner.


And as a side note: I have come across many Americans who confuse the names of Martin Luther and Martin Luther King. It's a pretty common mistake, nothing to amazing or horrifying, and not that big of a deal.


take care

[reepicheep]

<b>SisterJennifer wrote: I have come across many Americans who confuse the names of Martin Luther and Martin Luther King. It's a pretty common mistake, nothing to amazing or horrifying, and not that big of a deal. </b>


Well, all I can say is that, in my entire life, this is the first time I have encountered someone who confused Martin Luther with Martin Luther King. In my experience, it is not a common mistake.


Although Wel_mel_2's statements on Martin Luther/Martin Luther King/King Luther did confuse, amuse, amaze, and discombobulate me, they didn't horrify me. If you like, I can provide some examples of statements by Wel_mel_2 which DID horrify me...


<i><b>"God bless us, every one."</b></i>

[AlShamms]

Peace....



Man oh man this is enough to make your head spin. Let me add on to this subject as to why Mormons are not considered "christians".


Deuteronomy 4:2 states:


Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.


and Revelation 22:18 states:


For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:


So in both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant we are told not to add to the word of God and Mormons with their "another testament of Jesus Christ" have done just that. It would be the same thing if a group calling themselves muslims stated they had "another revelation of Allah" through "another prophet of Allah". No muslim would accept that because to them Muhammed was the final prophet with the final revelation. The same goes for the christian faith. Christ was the seal (for us) and his words as recorded by his Apostles or companions if you will, is the final word. And anyone who comes with "another testament" is not to be accepted.


Another point that can be pointed out to show why Mormons are not accepted as "christians" is the practice of plural wives.


Genesis 2:24 states:


Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.


Jesus Christ repeated this point as Matthew 19:5 states:


And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh.


Paul then follows this in his letter to the believers in Ephesus:


Ephesians 5:31


For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.


In all three accounts we see one man, one woman. Mormons have disobeyed this commandment and practice polygamy "poly" meaning many and "gamy" meaning wife.


I would also like to touch on the point Reep made about Mormons and their idea of God. Mormons believe that each man, if he lives according to the "principle" will, upon physical death, become a God with his own universe to rule. NO WHERE does the Bible teach this!! The Mormons believe that the God of this world began his existence as a physical man and "ascended" to God-hood...Blasphemy of the highest order


A good book to read concerning Mormon theology is The Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin


Shamms

[reepicheep]

<b>AlShamms wrote: Mormons believe that each man, if he lives according to the "principle" will, upon physical death, become a God with his own universe to rule. </b>


Yes, you are quite correct. And Mormons have another related belief which is equally strange:


All good mormons get married at one of the mormon temples, rather than at a "regular" church. On their wedding day, the groom is given a "secret" name for his new wife, which only he knows. In the afterlife, the mormon husband is resurrected first. He will have the opportunity to reflect back on how his wife treated him during this life, and if he so chooses, he will speak her secret name and she will then be resurrected, and rule his universe at his side as one of his wives.


Alas, if the wife did not treat her husband with enough respect during their time on Earth, then the husband has the option of NOT speaking her secret name, and she will spend eternity in the grave.


My dad told me once about an old mormon man he knew, who had forgotten the secret name which had been assigned to his wife. He had to go back to the mormon temple, where they searched through the old records and found the secret name. Good thing for his wife they found it, otherwise I guess she would not have been resurrected.


Then again, if the husband really wanted to resurrect her, he has all eternity to come up with the name ("Sarah??? How about Martha... No? Let's try Kathy..."). Eventually, by trial and error, he would have got the name right, and they would have been joined for eternity.


<i><b>"God bless us, every one."</b></i>

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Peace....

Let me add on to this subject as to why Mormons are not considered "christians".

I would like to know from you whether the Catholics are considered to be
<i>Christians
</i> according to your denomination?



Straight answer will be highly appreciated.



Salam



Wael.

[AlShamms]

Peace......



Wael, I don't belong to a denomination of christianity, my church studies the bible the way God intended, without the traditions of men getting in the way. That said, because of the many innovations the catholic church has introduced into their worship, according to the Bible, they are not christians.


I hope that was straight enough for you.


Shamms