+- Forums (https://bb.islamsms.com)
+-- Forum: ENGLISH (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=5)
+--- Forum: Discussion of Beliefs (https://bb.islamsms.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=25)
+--- Thread: Mormon missionaries. (/showthread.php?tid=6330)
Mormon missionaries. - wel_mel_2 - 11-27-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
I was in Hong Kong yesterday for some business, and of course my wife asked me to buy some products from the biggest Filipino mall in Hong Kong. And so I went there around lunch time and before entering the building I was stopped by 2 young men dressing in white shirts and nice ties and they started smiling at me and introducing themselves, I immediately noticed that they are Christian missionaries because they are wearing black plastic name card saying "The Church of Jesus Christ", they asked me if I was interested to listen to their message regarding Jesus pbuh and I didn't mind at all. So I invited them for lunch and the discussion started.
One of them is from Australia he told me that The Bible was altered many times and that the real message of Jesus pbuh was distorted by Christians themselves throughout the time, but amazingly the message of Jesus was <b>"RE-stored" </b> when a man called Joseph Smith was chosen by God to be <b>"a modern day prophet" </b> who found some plates somewhere in America and translated them into English and those plates are now known as <b>"the book of Mormon" </b> or <i>Another testimony of Jesus Christ.</i>
Anyway, the other missionary from USA told me that he was a Catholic one day but he was not satisfied with the Catholic teachings until one day he prayed <i>"in Jesus name"</i> to find the truth and so he <b>"found it" </b> and that is "the Church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints" , the only true denomination of Christianity, he said.
Basically they were trying to tell me that instead of being confused, just come with us to our church and get baptized today before it's too late, and they ensured that each and every word they are uttering is inspired by the power of<b> the Holy Ghost</b>.
<b></b>
So I started to ask some questions:
Wael: What is the position of Islam/Muslims/Muhammad pbuh according to Mormons?
The America missionary stepped up to answer, he says:
I believe that Muhammad pbuh <i>saw something </i> (Angel), and I believe that God Almighty <b>inspired him </b> with some message.
Wael: So do you believe that Muhammad pbuh is a Prophet of God?
He said: <b>could be</b>, because I read the Qur'an and it is very close to the teaching of the Bible.
Wael: so am I going to heaven if I followed this man?
He said: (<b>after long pause</b>): let me explain to you:
he took a white paper and started to draw for me three circle, one above the other, then he pointed to the first circle and said, this is the highest heaven where God and Jesus <b>PHYSICALLY</b> lives, this is the place where all people who accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior will be. Then he pointed to the second circle and said this is where Jesus lives (<b>please note: Jesus now lives in 2 kinds of heavens</b>). This is the place where people who strived hard to know the truth but the time does not permit them to get baptized, then he pointed his pen towards the third circle and told me that this is the place for<b> all bad people </b> (please note, this place is also in heaven according to them, they told me it is better place than this earth), this place will be for those people who were bad on this earth but yet they love Jesus pbuh.
Then he drew a line after these three circles and told me, after that is <b>Hell fire</b>, for those who <i>KNEW</i> the truth about Jesus, <b>that he is God, Savior etc </b> but yet rejected to accept him and kept to reject him till they die.
So I further asked them:
<b>In which place will I (Muslims) be?
</b>
So he believed (The American) that I (Muslims) will be in either <b>the second or the third heaven depends on our deeds. </b>
So I concluded my discussion with them as follows:
Since Muslims are going to be in heavens anyway, then <b>why are you asking me to get baptized before it's too late? </b>
Believe me, there was no answer, even their <i>Holy Ghost </i> was not able to offer them any help.
Ohhhh the Australian finally found it (<b>i.e. the Holy Ghost</b>)... He said:
Quote:"Brother, seek further help from God by praying in Jesus name and God will show you the Truth, because God answers the prayer"
I then thanked them so much for being so kind to me and I gave them my contact information in case they wanted to learn about Islam one day, (it seems that the American is much more interested to know about Islam). So, May Allah guide both of them to the right path. Ameen.
<b>SIDE NOTE:</b>
Can you believe that these 2 missionaries, <b>and thousands of other missionaries belongs to the same Church </b> are sent by their organization to many parts of the world to do <b>Daw'ah</b> (to call people to their faith)? They are trained very well before traveling, they are asked to learn any language of their choice for about 3 months, are also trained on how to approach people and talk to them for another 3 months, <b>then they are sent to all over the world to preach their faith in the language of people's choice</b>, (English, Arabic, Chinese, Cantonese, Tagalong, Thai, Malaysian, Indonesian, Indian languages, and hundreds of other languages) and of course all the expenses are carried by "the Church of Christ of latter day saints", many colored pamphlets are distributed freely through these missionaries, even the book of Mormon is given for free. during their mission (<b>2 whole yeras</b>) eating, clothing, accommodation, and some pocket money is given by the Church to these missionaries so that they can survive during their mission.
<b>Now the question is, are we really doing any good job as compare to this Church?
</b>
Just thought to share with you this little story, I hope that was not boring insh a Allah.
Salam
Wael
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 11-27-2007
<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: I immediately noticed that they are Christian missionaries </b>
Mormons aren't considered to be Christian in either the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant traditions.
Mormon missionaries. - Muslimah - 11-27-2007
Bismillah
Salam reepi
Why not? even though they believe in Jesus, baptism and most importantly the inspiration of the holy gost? can u pls explain why they are not Nazarines???
Mormon missionaries. - wel_mel_2 - 11-28-2007
BIsmillah: Assalamo ALikum.
Nice to see you again Reep..
Quote:<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: I immediately noticed that they are Christian missionaries </b>
Mormons aren't considered to be Christian in either the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant traditions.
Protestant, Catholics, Orthodox, Egyptian coptics, born again(S), Jehovah's witnesses, Iglesia ni Cristo, Seventh day Adventists, the living Church, Lutheran, etc etc... <b>ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE CHRISTIANS BY THE MORMONS.</b> although, each and every denomination have received the '<i>gift</i>' of the Holy Ghost and now they are "<i>saved"</i>.
Salam
Wael.
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 11-28-2007
<b>Wel_mel_2 wrote: Lutherans ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE CHRISTIANS BY THE MORMONS. although, each and every denomination have received the 'gift' of the Holy Ghost and now they are "saved".</b>
Strange. You say that Mormons don't consider Lutherans to be Christians, yet Mormons do believe that Lutheran's have received the gift of the Holy Spirit and are therefore saved.
Mormon theology is even more confusing than I realized.
Mormon missionaries. - wel_mel_2 - 11-28-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:<b>Wel_mel_2 wrote: Lutherans ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE CHRISTIANS BY THE MORMONS. although, each and every denomination have received the 'gift' of the Holy Ghost and now they are "saved".</b>
Strange. You say that Mormons don't consider Lutherans to be Christians, yet Mormons do believe that Lutheran's have received the gift of the Holy Spirit and are therefore saved.
Mormon theology is even more confusing than I realized.
Not true, their theology is actually very simple;<b> they just believe that they are the only right group to be called Christians</b>.
Yes they may believe that Lutheran was a true Christians, <b>but they don't believe in a denomination called Lutherans</b>, they simply believe that anyone call himself Christian should join their church, It's like you or FHC telling me that the Catholic Church is the only true Church of Christ, <b>so they are just saying the exact same thing.</b>
I wonder how can you accuse them for being <b>NOT CHRISTIANS </b> if they believe in the followings:
<b>1- Jesus as God Almighty and part of Trinity (Although they don't use the term trinity, but they do believe that Jesus and the Father are separate persons, yet they are the same God)</b>
2- They do believe that Jesus took away the sins of mankind by dying on the Cross.
3- They do believe that Jesus was resurrected.
4- They do believe in the baptism for the remission of sins.
5- They do believe in the power/gift of the Holy Ghost.
<b>The above are just the basic dogmas that any Christians needs to be saved</b>, ask any Christian and he will tell you, <b>Believe in Jesus as your personal savior and Lord and YOU WILL BE SAVED</b>. Well, they do believe wholeheartedly that Jesus is their Lord and Savior., so to call them <b>NOT TRUE CHRISTIAN</b>, is like you are telling me that <b>you and other people from different sects are NOT CHRISTIANS TOO</b>.
Salam
Wael.
Mormon missionaries. - SisterJennifer - 11-28-2007
Asalaamu alikum
It's kind of a fruitless argument isn't it? I mean, weather this one wants to acknowledge the other or not, does it really change anything?
Quote:Now the question is, are we really doing any good job as compare to this Church?
Interesting post brother Wael, I too have met many mormons all over the states, they are quite active. As far as how we compare alongside them regarding their stratagey, well I guess we don't and that is for reason too. It's often said Islam is the best religion with the worst followers, and among reverts its popular to hear the comment, 'thank God I met Islam before I met the Muslims.' But in spite of our shortcomings Islam grows at a very good pace. The reason because a good product sells itself. But I guess if you are selling crap you will need to get into strategies and sales tactics.
I dont think we are in position to do as they do. Dawah has to start at home and we have to understand the religion ourselves before we go out preaching to the people. Too often I wonder if we just help in spreading alot of misinformation. I guess my idea is that we need to worry about dawah within the Muslim community itself, the reverts are going to come regardless. Let's try to give them something besides confusion once they do revert. I think that should take priority over anything.
take care, asalaamu alikum
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 11-28-2007
<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Lutheran, etc etc... ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE CHRISTIANS BY THE MORMONS. </b>
wel_mel_2 also wrote: Yes they may believe that Lutheran was a true Christians
So, mormons believe that Lutherans are not Christians, but they also believe that Lutherans are Christians. Interesting.
Mormon missionaries. - wel_mel_2 - 11-28-2007
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Lutheran, etc etc... ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE CHRISTIANS BY THE MORMONS. </b>
wel_mel_2 also wrote: Yes they may believe that Lutheran was a true Christians
So, mormons believe that Lutherans are not Christians, but they also believe that Lutherans are Christians. Interesting.
I thought you are smarter than that. :)
Luther the King, was called Lutheran by his followers, so i was talking about the MAN LUTHER not about the religion which was invented in his name, like Christ and Christians, Judah and Judaism, Buddha and Buddhism, etc etc... So to make it more clear for you Mr reep, I meant to say that Mormons may believe that Lutheran or Luther the King is a true Christian, but they don't believe in a religion called Lutheran or named after him.
Salam
Wael.
Mormon missionaries. - reepicheep - 11-28-2007
<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Mormons may believe that Lutheran or Luther the King is a true Christian</b>
I don't know of anyone named either "Lutheran" or "Luther the King". Perhaps you mean Martin Luther? Or maybe Martin Luther King???