Mormon missionaries.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Mormons may believe that Lutheran or Luther the King is a true Christian</b>


I don't know of anyone named either "Lutheran" or "Luther the King". Perhaps you mean Martin Luther? Or maybe Martin Luther King???

Oh yeah, Luther the King is same as Martin Luther king and Lutheran faith was named after him. Now let us try to stick to our original post, that mormons claims to be the only true Christians and no one else.


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Luther the King is same as Martin Luther king and Lutheran faith was named after him. </b>


The Lutheran Church was founded around the time "The Book of Concord" was published (in the year 1580 AD, or approximately 427 years ago). Martin Luther King wasn't born until 1929. Clearly, the Lutheran faith was NOT named after Martin Luther King. In fact, Martin Luther King was a baptist minister and not a Lutheran as you claim.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Luther the King is same as Martin Luther king and Lutheran faith was named after him. </b>


The Lutheran Church was founded around the time "The Book of Concord" was published (in the year 1580 AD, or approximately 427 years ago). Martin Luther King wasn't born until 1929. Clearly, the Lutheran faith was NOT named after Martin Luther King. In fact, Martin Luther King was a baptist minister and not a Lutheran as you claim.

Clearly there is a mix up here, let me clarify further so that we don't go back and forth talking about "<i>off topic issue</i>".


Martin Luther is the one i was talking about, sorry for creating any confusion. of course i was not talking about Martin Luther King <b>one of the main leaders of the American civil rights movement</b>. but we are not in conflict anyway, the whole faith of Lutheran was <b>NAMED after Martin Luther</b>. so here is the point.

Lutherans <b>don't worship Martin Luther by any means</b>. <b>In fact, Luther himself didn't want his followers to be called Lutherans</b>. It was given by those who opposed Luther as a derogatory name. Nevertheless, the name has stuck for the past 500 years to describe those who recognize his theology over and against the Roman Catholic Church of that time. With Luther, the rise of the protestant churches began. The life of Martin Luther is another example of God's perfect timing.

King of Kings Lutheran Church


So are we done with this now? Can we please stick to our original post?


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

<b>Wel_mel_2 wrote: Mormons may believe that Lutheran or Luther the King is a true Christian, </b>


Mormons believe, like Muslims, that people are saved through "good works". Martin Luther believed that people are saved by faith alone. I doubt that Mormons would consider Luther to be a Christian.


In any case, Martin Luther would NOT consider Mormons to be Christian. And, as I stated earlier, Mormons aren't considered to be Christian in either the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant traditions.


<b>Wel_mel_2 wrote: The life of Martin Luther is another example of God's perfect timing. </b>


I of course agree with you. But I'm surprised that you would make such a statement.


Do muslims consider Martin Luther to be a muslim prophet???

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah; Assalamo ALikum.

<b>Wel_mel_2 wrote: Mormons may believe that Lutheran or Luther the King is a true Christian, </b>


In any case, Martin Luther would NOT consider Mormons to be Christian. And, as I stated earlier, Mormons aren't considered to be Christian in either the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant traditions.

As i said earlier, also the Catholics, Protestant and Orthodox (and thousands of other Christian cults) are not considered to be Christians by the Mormons.

<b>Wel_mel_2 wrote: The life of Martin Luther is another example of God's perfect timing. </b>
I of course agree with you. But I'm surprised that you would make such a statement.


Do muslims consider Martin Luther to be a muslim prophet???

That was<b> not </b> my statement, please pay attention to my posts, i was only quoting from the Lutheran Church's website.


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

Wel_mel_2, I'm curious to know why you have this sudden obsession with Martin Luther. And what is the connection, if any, between Martin Luther and the Mormon church???


I don't think this thread is going anywhere. Perhaps we should just drop this discussion.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Wel_mel_2, I'm curious to know why you have this sudden obsession with Martin Luther. And what is the connection, if any, between Martin Luther and the Mormon church???


I don't think this thread is going anywhere. Perhaps we should just drop this discussion.

Subhan Allah, have you lost your mind REEP ? :)


Let me summarize what happened exactly.


<b>You said: </b>


Mormons aren't considered to be Christian in either the Roman Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant traditions.



Sister Muslimah asked you <b>WHY NOT?</b> But you ignored her question totally. :conf06: :conf06: :conf06:


<b>I said in response to your post# 2</b> that the Protestant, Catholics, Orthodox, Egyptian coptics, born again(S), Jehovah's witnesses, Iglesia ni Cristo, Seventh day Adventists, the living Church, Lutheran, etc etc... ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE CHRISTIANS BY THE MORMONS.



So you came back to say that Mormons do believe that Lutheran's have received the gift of the Holy Spirit and are therefore saved
, <b>but you have not provide any evidence for this claim which caused lots of confusion.</b>


So I said: that Mormons believe that they are the only right group to be called Chris
tians
, which means that they do not believe that Lutherans have anything to do with Christianity.


<b>I then asked you </b> how could you accuse Mormons for being not Christians if they hold the basic beliefs as other denominations, <b>but you have ignored answering that question too</b>!! please check my post# 6


Then you have come back to confuse us even more by saying:


So, mormons believe that Lutherans are not Christians, but they also believe that Lutherans are Christians. Interesting.



Then please check again my post # 9 where I clarified your statement and that <b>Lutheran religion were named after Martin Luther</b>, (<i>I do agree that both of us were confused with Martin Luther King and Martin Luther the Baptist</i>) but anyway my point was about <b>a religion named after a man as in the case of Christianity.</b>


<b>I then asked you more than one time to stick to the original post but you kept mentioning LUTHERAN thing till now</b>, and at the end you are telling me that I have some king of <i>a sudden obsession </i> about Martin Luther, <b>NO I DON’T</b>.


So now, you can either answer our questions, or stop posting on this thread and allow other Christians to post their opinions. As of me, <b>the topic is done since post #1</b>. <b>Mormons believe that they are the only right people to be called Christians and no one else and you have not been able to disprove their claim.</b>


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Sister Muslimah asked you WHY NOT? But you ignored her question totally. </b>


I don't think Muslimah's question was addressed to me. She was asking why Mormons aren't "Nazarines" (I think she meant "Nazarenes"). Since I'm a Lutheran, and not a member of The Church of the Nazarene, I didn't think it was proper for me to answer. If there are any Nazarene posters here (I don't think there are any), I'll let them answer Muslimah's question.


<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: So you came back to say that Mormons do believe that Lutheran's have received the gift of the Holy Spirit and are therefore saved, but you have not provide any evidence for this claim which caused lots of confusion.</b>


I made no such claim. You are the one who claimed that Mormons believe that Lutherans and other groups have received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Go back and read your post #4.


<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: So Mormons believe that they are the only right group to be called Christians</b>


True. That is what Mormons believe.


<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: I then asked you how could you accuse Mormons for being not Christians if they hold the basic beliefs as other denominations, but you have ignored answering that question too</b>


You are mistaken. Mormons do not hold the same basic beliefs as other denominations. If they did, then obviously mormons would consider other denominations to be christian. But mormons don't consider other denominations to be Christian, since mormons believe certain things that other denominations don't believe.


<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: Then you have come back to confuse us even more by saying: So, mormons believe that Lutherans are not Christians, but they also believe that Lutherans are Christians. Interesting.</b>


I was repeating what you were claiming. But you later explained that you meant that Mormons believe that Martin Luther was a Christian, and that mormons believe that Lutherans aren't Christian. You are, of course, mistaken, since Martin Luther and Lutherans have similar beliefs. There is no reason that the Mormons would consider Martin Luther to be a Christian. And, if they did, then clearly they would also consider Lutherans to be Christians.


<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: I do agree that both of us were confused with Martin Luther King and Martin Luther the Baptist.</b>


I wasn't confused, you were. In fact, you are still confused, since you are now claiming that Martin Luther was a baptist. It was Martin Luther King who was baptist, not Martin Luther.


<b>wel_wel_2 wrote: Mormons believe that they are the only right people to be called Christians and no one else and you have not been able to disprove their claim.</b>


Yes, I agree that Mormons claim to be the only true Christians. But Protestants, Roman Catholics, and all Orthodox Christians of course disagree with them.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

wel_mel_2 wrote: Sister Muslimah asked you WHY NOT? But you ignored her question totally.
I don't think Muslimah's question was addressed to me. She was asking why Mormons aren't "Nazarines" (I think she meant "Nazarenes"). Since I'm a Lutheran, and not a member of The Church of the Nazarene, I didn't think it was proper for me to answer. If there are any Nazarene posters here (I don't think there are any), I'll let them answer Muslimah's question.

Ok, sister Muslimah usually refers to <b>any Christian</b> as Nazarene (<b>which is the correct term by the way</b>), you can view this thread for more information:


They Should not be called Christians.


So now you can answer her question if you wish.

wel_mel_2 wrote: So you came back to say that Mormons do believe that Lutheran's have received the gift of the Holy Spirit and are therefore saved, but you have not provide any evidence for this claim which caused lots of confusion.
I made no such claim. You are the one who claimed that Mormons believe that Lutherans and other groups have received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Go back and read your post #4.

Of course you did, in your post# 5. here are your exact words:

Strange. You say that Mormons don't consider Lutherans to be Christians, yet Mormons do believe that Lutheran's have received the gift of the Holy Spirit and are therefore saved.

In my post #4, i was referring to all Christians who believe that they are saved and blessed with the gift of the Holy Ghost, I am only saying what they believe, <b>but I don't believe in their dogmas</b>.

wel_mel_2 wrote: So Mormons believe that they are the only right group to be called Christians
True. That is what Mormons believe.

And that is what you believe too, you believe that you are on the right track, and each and every other cult in Christianity believes the same thing, <b>so I can see no difference between YOU and them. </b>

wel_mel_2 wrote: I then asked you how could you accuse Mormons for being not Christians if they hold the basic beliefs as other denominations, but you have ignored answering that question too
You are mistaken. Mormons do not hold the same basic beliefs as other denominations. If they did, then obviously mormons would consider other denominations to be christian. But mormons don't consider other denominations to be Christian, since mormons believe certain things that other denominations don't believe.

I am not talking about the <b>OTHER CERTAIN THINGS </b> which Mormons believes in, I am talking about the <b>BASIC</b> beliefs which could take anyone straight to heavens according to Christians, and these are, <b>faith in Jesus, believe that he take away your sins, his resurrection, that he is God and man, and so on and so forth</b>... please note that each and every denomination believes in <b>CERTAIN OTHER THINGS </b> which is denied and rejected by other sects, so again, I can see no big difference between YOU and them.

wel_mel_2 wrote: I do agree that both of us were confused with Martin Luther King and Martin Luther the Baptist.
I wasn't confused, you were. In fact, you are still confused, since you are now claiming that Martin Luther was a baptist. It was Martin Luther King who was baptist, not Martin Luther.

Wow man, you are unbelievable, Martin Luther King was the Baptist, and Martin Luther is the Lutheran, no confusion anymore, when I am talking about <b>Lutherans, I am not talking about Martin Luther King the black American. OK? </b>

wel_wel_2 wrote: Mormons believe that they are the only right people to be called Christians and no one else and you have not been able to disprove their claim.
Yes, I agree that Mormons claim to be the only true Christians. But Protestants, Roman Catholics, and all Orthodox Christians of course disagree with them.

Yes, but that is not all, <b>Protestants and Orthodox disagree with Catholics </b> , <b>Catholics and Orthodox disagree with Protestant</b>, <b>Catholics and Protestants disagree with Orthodox and so on</b>.. so i can see nothing new when Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox disagree with mormons, <b>Each and every sect in Christianitys thinks that they are saved</b>, but the reality is that <b>God Almighty alone knows who is saved and who is going to be burn in Hell.</b>


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

<b>Wel_mel_2 wrote: Each and every sect in Christianity thinks that they are saved</b>


True.


Are you saying that there are Muslim sects which believe they are not saved? Why in the world would a muslim choose to belong to a sect where eternal damnation, and not salvation, is guaranteed???