A two part question

[submit]

It is not fitting for a Believer, man or woman, when a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger to have any option about their decision: if any one disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path.


033.036

Peace be upon you.


Look, i never said 'don't obey the messenger'. I simply said 'you can't obey the messenger'. He's dead. He can't speak to you (except in visions), so how in the world do you expect to obey and accept his judgement? If he was alive, i would do whatever he asked of me. But he's not. All these verses speak in the present tense. He's dead.

"And, he (the Prophet) does not speak from his desires; verily, what he says is revelation from (God)" [soorah an-Najm (53):3]

Read the context bro:


As the stars fell away.


Your friend was not astray, nor was he deceived.


Nor does he speak out of personal desire.


<b>It was divine inspiration.</b>


Which one of mighty powers has taught him,


Possessor of all authority. From His highest height.


When <b>he was on the uppermost horizon.</b>


He drew nearer by moving down.


Until He became as close as possible.


And <b>He revealed to His servant what He revealed</b>.


those are verses 1-10. They are talking about the Qur'an.

You are a brave person saying what you have. However, your above statement does underpin the level of ignorance.

Please don't insult me. I'm not being 'brave'. I do not say the hadiths are unneeded for a personal profit. I simply say it to show the truth.

The verse above clearly states that rasool (saw) does not speak from his own desires as it is revelation and you have the audacity to say hadiths issued from a man!

Nope the above shows you quoted of context...again.


And let's be clear, the hadiths WERE issued by a man. His name was Muhammed. May God bless him.


may God bless you.

[submit]

Submit, let me ask you a direct question in order to resovle a certain issue, since you bounced between statements in a number of posts.

What do you mean i 'bounced'?

Are you a Quranii?


simple yes or no.

I am part of no sect. I am simply Muslim. I follow the Qur'an. It says:


6:159


Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgment rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything they had done.


30:32


(Do not fall in idol worship,) like those who divide their religion into sects; each party rejoicing with what they have.


42:14


Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves. If it were not for a predetermined decision from your Lord to respite them for a definite interim, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the later generations who inherited the scripture are full of doubts.


I follow the Qur'an. I reject the Hadiths. But i recognise that there are true Hadiths out there, that should be followed. But i also recognise that these are not eternal. One of the reasons which make them lower than the Qur'an, is the fact if they were so important as you make them out to be, they would be in the Qur'an. I also recognise lots of contradictions, and i've read about them supposedly being corrupted, but i've never seen evidence.


I'm not a quranite and not a sunni or shia.


may God bless you.

[Rock]

Bismillah


Wellcom,Voice of reason


Yes,it is true that the Quran is complete and also we can say that the Quran is fully detailed.


The Quran did`nt contain all the details of all our life affairs.


Quran set the bases,put the boundries,indicated what is admitted and what is forbidden,but also the Quran gave us the guide to ensure correct understanding and applying of the rules.


We are requested to lesten,to look,to think,to ask those who charged with authority among us,to learn from the history,...


Also we are ordered to be a real muslim to obey Allah and his Messenger&to take the


Messenger as a beautiful pattern.


refer to holly Quran 33/21


"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the praise of Allah"


also refer to holly Quran 8/20


"O ye who believe! obey Allah and His Messenger, and turn not away from him when ye hear (him speak)."


Many many verses mentioned that.


I think that if we do`nt follow the prophet example,we contradict ourself,it is not logic to accept him as a God prophet and refuse to take him as our battern in life.


muslim sisters and brothers


salam all


Following the Sunna


I understand what brother submet say,and I think all of us agree and like to follow our beloved prophet,some times we are in difference about something if it is from the sunna or not.


There are some points concerning this matter.


**I think all of us agree that the ahadith are reported to us through humans,so we can`t neglect the effct of the human factor and the possibility of corupption.Actually the muslims scholars recognise that and set very hard rules concerning those who reported the ahadith and


those who collect to ensure the correctness of the hadih,also they classified the ahadith according to the degree of assurance


**I know that the prophet(pbuh)gave his companions an advice concerning the care of the palm tree,but this advice was not effective,he told"you know more about your living affairs".


I think that our prophet admitted that we should make our minds in some fields and not necessary to follow his pattern.


**Following the sunna depends on our degree of iman and our culture.


Some people rush to follow any hadith without thinking,some people try to ensure the source and to make their minds.


I hope Allah rewarding all of us as well as we want his acceptance.

[AlShamms]

Yes,it is true that the Quran is complete and also we can say that the Quran is fully detailed.


The Quran did`nt contain all the details of all our life affairs.


Quran set the bases,put the boundries,indicated what is admitted and what is forbidden,but also the Quran gave us the guide to ensure correct understanding and applying of the rules.

Peace....


I know I'm not muslim so this quran/hadith debate is really beyond my knowledge base. But this is what I'm having a hard time wraping my head around. How can you say the quran is <i>fully</i> detailed....then turn right around and say it doesn't contain this or that detail? :banghead:


If the quran does not contain something you need to practice your faith, then it isn't FULLY detailed. I mean, that is a logical conclusion isn't it? So I guess what needs to be defined is how the term "full" or "fully" is understood. Because to me, when something is full of something, then I don't need to look elsewhere, everything I need is contained right here.


Shamms

[Rock]

Peace....


I know I'm not muslim so this quran/hadith debate is really beyond my knowledge base. But this is what I'm having a hard time wraping my head around. How can you say the quran is <i>fully</i> detailed....then turn right around and say it doesn't contain this or that detail? :banghead:


If the quran does not contain something you need to practice your faith, then it isn't FULLY detailed. I mean, that is a logical conclusion isn't it? So I guess what needs to be defined is how the term "full" or "fully" is understood. Because to me, when something is full of something, then I don't need to look elsewhere, everything I need is contained right here.


Shamms

Bismillah


peace


When I said that the Quran is fully detailed I mean that"following the Quran enable me to behave correctly at any moment of my life whatever the situation is.


For example


Quran stated that we should pray to Allah.


Quran stated that we should obey Allah messenger.


Allah messenger show us how to pray.


So by following the Quran I can perform my pray correctly.


Sunna show us how to apply Allah rules,but no more rules.


Following the sunna is one of Allah orders.


I hope,stoping wraping your head around.

[lifutushi]

Assalamu'alaykum...


Is Qur'an Complete? YES


Is Qur'an detailed? NO


Why Hadeeth and Sunnah? To detail out what's mentioned in the Qur'an....


For example, Qur'an talks about the development of child in the womb.. Qur'an defines the stages as:


1)Semen


2)A clot of blood that clings, looks like leech


3)A lump of meat, looks like chewed meat


4)Bone development


5)Organ development


6)etc...


But only in the hadeeth we can find the details about these stages especially the periods of each stage...

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom all


This same question was raised before coupled with other issues.


Insh a Allah, this thread will fill the gap:


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=2642

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


I felt that this topic does still need some work, specially this statement. Although Dan, may Allah Reward him, refered to a whole thread dedicated to this issue. However, just for the sake of further clarification and assisting others to learn, this man you are refering to Submit, is named Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him, yes, but concurrenlty he is the same person about whom Allah Say in Quran:


"Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.* It is only an Inspiration that is inspired.) Quran 53:2-3)


Hold on dont say this applies on what the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him communicated to us of Quran, not this includes his Ahadeeth as well. Simply because the Ayah say nor does he speak of his own desire. See, the same meaning is strongly supported by the Ayah:


"And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. " (Quran 59:6)


Thus, by virtue of this Ayah, Allah Granted the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam the authority to legislate. Not that Quran is incomplete or does not contain each and every legislation, but becaue by virtue of this Ayah, the completion of Quran is even more established, validated and verified. It says that the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam is authorised to pass legislations, and you should obey him as mentioned also in more than 25 positions in Quran in different forms. Insh aAlalh I m going to post an article about this issue in particular.

Peace be upon you.
And let's be clear, the hadiths WERE issued by a man. His name was Muhammed. May God bless him.


may God bless you.

[submit]

Bismillah
as salam alykom

Wa alakum salam wa rahmetu Allah wa barekto.


It has been a long time since i posted those posts. But as a forum member, i was sent an automatic email including a link to this topic. Now reading them to myself, I sound vague, i spoke without clarifying, and did not communicate my meanings well.


Let me clarify my position:


Allah revealed the Qur'an fully detailed in Law and Truth and Justice. (6:114-115)


Yes, you can use the hadith to further explain the Laws or to further find out how to practice certain rites.


About the hadith:


-Some hadith are fabricated. This is common knowledge. Bukhari and others tried to sort the bad from the good. My position is simply that bukhari didn't do a perfect job. Bukhari is just a wise man, but he is no prophet who is being told by Allah what is right from wrong. I'm not saying we should randomly suspect hadiths to be false. We can assume them to be right before wrong.


This doesn't mean that we should just reject the hadith.


About my sect:


I am not a Quranite. But neither would i identify myself as Sunni or Shia. The Qur'an tells us not to divide into sects. Issues such as whether Ali should have been Caliph do not really matter to m when it comes to my daily life. It does not affect how I pray or make wuthu or try to help fellow Muslims. So I don't want to divide myself over a issue that doesn't affect the Ummah much anyway. Yes there maybe a few differences between sunni and shia, but the Qur'an says we should unite, because we both belive in the Qur'an.


I hope i have been much clearer, and spoken better. I enjoy awaiting your response.


Maybe i should become a regular...i know you'd love that! :P


Sorry we had conflicted sis. Inshallah we can put that behind us.


may God bless you.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


wa alykom as salam wa rahamtu Allah wa barakatu


First off let me welcome you back and tell you there is not conflict brother. My aim is never to clash with anyone, not Muslims or non muslims. However, as I indicated in my post, we are not eternal in this life, one day we will go, but Insh aAllah our work shall sustain. Certainly, your post this time was clearer and Alhamdulelah, but do u still reject ahadeeth??


Yet again Insh aAllah I m going to update the Answer the Prophet's Call thread with relevant material to help further explain this crucial point. It is a point where non Muslims are really working on to divert Muslims from their Deen.