A two part question - Printable Version

A two part question - Printable Version

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A two part question - voice of reason - 09-21-2006

Question #1 I have an understanding that the Quran is complete and fully detailed is this true? From what I have read in the Quran.

Question #2 If this is so then why the Hadith and Sunnah this is quite illogical and make no sense. If the Quran is complete and fully detailed then there is no use at all for the Hadith and Sunnah.

Thank you to all who respond this is a very logical problem such as "This picture is ALL red." "Yet there is a little green on it." Then it cannot logically be possible that it is ALL red.

Same with the Quran if it is ALL complete and ALL detailed then the Hadith and the Sunnah are not needed, otherwise the Quran is not ALL complete and detailed.

Again thanks for addressing this complex issue.

Peace to all,

Voice of Reason

A two part question - wel_mel_2 - 09-21-2006

Bismillah:

Quote:Question #1 I have an understanding that the Quran is complete and fully detailed is this true?

Yes it is true.

Quote:Question #2 If this is so then why the Hadith and Sunnah this is quite illogical and make no sense. If the Quran is complete and fully detailed then there is no use at all for the Hadith and Sunnah.

Sunnah means the way of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. It includes everything he said, did, and approved of. We know the Sunnah from the statements called Hadiths that have been handed down from the Companions of the Prophet pbuh.

And so, the Qur'an which is complete tells us to follow and obey whatever the Prophet pbuh have said. means to follow his sunnah. 

“Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger”
[Qur’an 4:59]

“Whoever obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah.” 
[Qur'an 4:80]

 “Whatever the Messenger gives you take it, and whatever he forbids you abstain from it.” 
[Qur'an 59:7]

So by following the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, we are simultaneously following the Qur'an which is Allah's word and the last and final revelation sent by God to the whole of humanity.

hop this answer your question logically Insha'Allah.

Salam

wael.

A two part question - voice of reason - 09-21-2006

Quote:Bismillah:

Yes it is true.

Sunnah means the way of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh. It includes everything he said, did, and approved of. We know the Sunnah from the statements called Hadiths that have been handed down from the Companions of the Prophet pbuh.

And so, the Qur'an which is complete tells us to follow and obey whatever the Prophet pbuh have said. means to follow his sunnah. 

“Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger”
[Qur’an 4:59]

“Whoever obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah.” 
[Qur'an 4:80]

 “Whatever the Messenger gives you take it, and whatever he forbids you abstain from it.” 
[Qur'an 59:7]

So by following the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad pbuh, we are simultaneously following the Qur'an which is Allah's word and the last and final revelation sent by God to the whole of humanity.

hop this answer your question logically Insha'Allah.

Salam

wael.

Yes it answers the question but, I am not sure effectively.

If something is complete: having every necessary or normal part or component or step; "a complete meal"; "a complete wardrobe"; "a complete set of the Britannica"; "a complete set of china"; "a complete defeat"; "a complete accounting"

come or bring to a finish or an end; "He finished the dishes"; "She completed the requirements for her Master's Degree"; "The fastest runner finished the race in just over 2 hours; others finished in over 4 hours"

bring to a whole, with all the necessary parts or elements; "A child would complete the family"

perfect and complete in every respect; having all necessary qualities; "a complete gentleman"; "consummate happiness"; "a consummate performance"

Then by saying the Quran is complete but, you need other material that is contradictory.

Such as " He was a complete gentleman, except when he insulted the maidens mother.

That is illogical because it is contradictory he could not be a "complete" gentleman when there is an exception.

The Quran cannot be complete, if other material must explain the Quran otherwise it is not truly complete.

Peace to all,

Voice of Reason

A two part question - submit - 09-21-2006

Quote:Question #1 I have an understanding that the Quran is complete and fully detailed is this true? From what I have read in the Quran.

Peace be upon you!

I'm not sure. It's complete regarding Islamic issues.

Quote:Question #2 If this is so then why the Hadith and Sunnah this is quite illogical and make no sense. If the Quran is complete and fully detailed then there is no use at all for the Hadith and Sunnah.

Despite never being told by the Qur'an to believe them in the hadith and sunna, lots of them still do. I find it illogical and wrong.

It's a fact that the Hadith and sunna have been corrupted by Muslims. You will also often find contradictions between them. It gets even worse when you try and find translations of Hadiths because it turns out quite a few have been twisted in an attempt to distort Islam.

Also during the shia and sunni wars of Islam, the Muslims made up hadiths for propaganda.

However, the Hadiths are good to know for the history of the Islamic period and Islamic practices. Some Muslims say that the 5 prayers a day cannot be found anywhere except in the Hadith, which makes them essential, but this is wrong. Each prayer is mentioned in the Qur'an and so on...it's just that Muslims have become so used to the Hadiths...

the Hadiths have also caused many problems. Including whether Aysha, a wife of the prophet, was 9 when she married the prophet. It turns out from other hadiths, that she isn't. Also she made the hijra making her at least 14 when she got married.

Thank you to all who respond this is a very logical problem such as "This picture is ALL red." "Yet there is a little green on it." Then it cannot logically be possible that it is ALL red.

Same with the Quran if it is ALL complete and ALL detailed then the Hadith and the Sunnah are not needed, otherwise the Quran is not ALL complete and detailed.

For Muslims born into Muslim families, they should decide whether they want the Hadiths and Sunna in their faith. I have chosen to dismiss them because they serve no purpose in my beliefs. There a few hadith saying you must believe in the sunna and Hadith but quite a lot of these are fake, plus people often forget the prophet himself ordered the destroying of all recorded hadiths which continued until 9th century.

For Muslims who converted to Islam, just use the Qur'an. It's all you need at the end of the day.

Note: my answer is not a scholarly answer.

may God bless you.

A two part question - submit - 09-21-2006

you've posted this topic twice. see my answer is the repeat of this topic.

A two part question - Khalilah - 09-21-2006

Quote:Question #1 I have an understanding that the Quran is complete and fully detailed is this true? From what I have read in the Quran.

Question #2 If this is so then why the Hadith and Sunnah this is quite illogical and make no sense. If the Quran is complete and fully detailed then there is no use at all for the Hadith and Sunnah.

Thank you to all who respond this is a very logical problem such as "This picture is ALL red." "Yet there is a little green on it." Then it cannot logically be possible that it is ALL red.

Same with the Quran if it is ALL complete and ALL detailed then the Hadith and the Sunnah are not needed, otherwise the Quran is not ALL complete and detailed.

Again thanks for addressing this complex issue.

Peace to all,

Voice of Reason

A two part question - Khalilah - 09-21-2006

As Salaamu Waalaikum,

Kayfa Haluka? Insha'allah all is well. First and formost The Quran is the speech of Allah( swt) so it's definately complete and true...Now in the Quran allah has told us that the Prophet Muhammed (saw) is the Last Messenger and that we should follow him to learn our religion so the sunnah is the legal ways of the Prohet Muhammed (saw) which is everything he said, did & silently approved of and the Hadith is a narration of the sunnah from the Salaf (Predecessors) which were his companions so with that being said it is not for us to question what Allah says is so because he is our lord and Allahu Aalam....The only way for us (muslims) to follow him we have to know what he said, did and silently appoved of and that's why we rely on the Salaf to tell us though narration because we were not there to find out for ourselves...Questioning the Sunnah and Hadith is like questioning your lord and what he has decree (Qadar) and that it a form of shirk to question the Qadar of Allah (swt) so please seek Ilm( knowledge) of the Deen Al-Islam so insha'allah you don't make staements of Kufr (Disbelief)

Ma Salaama

A two part question - submit - 09-21-2006

salam alaykum.

I'm afraid i must disagree with parts of your post, my brother.

Quote:First and formost The Quran is the speech of Allah( swt) so it's definately complete and true

That's not right. Allah's speech is always truth. But it's not always complete. The Qur'an never describes or mentions playing on a games console. Does this make the Qur'an incomplete? In a way, yes. If we restrict 'complete' to just having all Islamic laws, then no.

Quote:...Now in the Quran allah has told us that the Prophet Muhammed (saw) is the Last Messenger and that we should follow him to learn our religion so the sunnah is the legal ways of the Prohet Muhammed (saw) which is everything he said, did & silently approved of and the Hadith is a narration of the sunnah from the Salaf (Predecessors) which were his companions

There are problems. The Qur'an tells us to obey the prophet. However, it also says that if the prophet would say anything NOT from God, then the revelations would stop coming. Thus, when speaking Islamically, everything the prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings upon him, spoke was from God. So when the Qur'an tells us to obey the prophet, it tells us to obey him regarding Islam. Not how we should eat or whatever else is in the Hadiths. Eating with your right hand because your left hand is like the devil or whatever that hadith was, is absurd. Does eating with your wrong hand really get you a few sins? There are many other problems with such hadiths.

If we talk about Islam related hadiths, such as how we should pray, then this is what we should be obeying. There's a difference between blindly following everything and carefully following the logical religious things. There's even a hadith which tells you to drink while standing. When i came back from holiday, the internet showed me a contradicting hadith which told me to drink while sitting down. Both of this hadiths are not related to Islam, and should be ignored.

Also let us remember many of the last prophet's companions burned their hadiths.

Quote:so with that being said it is not for us to question what Allah says is so because he is our lord and Allahu Aalam

We can question Allah for reasons. But we can't oppose Him. For truth and knowledge are great tools and lead to understanding. Without understanding, everything would be pointless. Why worship God, if we have no reason? There's a reason to worship God. So we worship Him.

Glorious Qur'an [17:36]: You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.

Quote:Questioning the Sunnah and Hadith is like questioning your lord and what he has decree (Qadar)

Wrong. A simple human man named Muhammed, who was a cammal trader susposedly revealed these Hadiths. What we must remember, as i explained above, is that we only obey him regarding Islam. We do not obey him regarding how to play chess or whatever. The hadiths telling you to drink when standing or sitting are not Islamically related. And they are not scientific hadiths (i.e. stand and drink because it's healthy or vice versa) because the body uses muscle to move drink and food. So those hadiths have no revelance at all. This is reason one why to dismiss these two particular hadiths.

Reason two is that those two hadiths contradict each other. Which suggests that either the prophet Muhammed, peace and blessings upon him, gave this as an opinion. Not as a fact from God. Because God does not make mistakes. Also it might suggest that one of them are fake. Supporting the idea of corruption among the hadiths.

May God bless you.

A two part question - Dan - 09-21-2006

Bismillah

As Salam alaikum

This is one of the greatest fallacies that members of our ummah are making nowadays. Most of us do not have the educational background to make statements of fiqh about ahadeeth. Reading a book of hadith does not make one a scholar. One must know when, where, and in what context they were revealed.

This job has been done and is being done by the scholars of the four mathhabs, Shafi', Maki, Hanabali, and Hanafee.

It is a sign of ignorance to dismiss something when we do not understand, ESPECIALLY when previous scholars have studied them, understood them, and verified their authenticity.

If many of us look at the night sky (if we aren't in the city) we just see a jumble of stars. "Oh what a mess. There's no pattern here" yet we KNOW from scientists and astronomers that there is a clear orderliness to the night sky. Do we dispute these knowledgabel people? No.

Yet as an ummah, we have taken to disputing about religious matters when we have no education that would qualify us for this.

Understand that we are accountable for all our statements, especially for those which spread information that people take to heart, good and bad.

As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

A two part question - Dan - 09-21-2006

Bismillah

As Salam alaikum

Here we go again, so....

read all of this info if you care

http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=1842