Jesus In Islam

[Anyabwile]

Just a side note.... There is not even consensus in the Muslim community that this is true.

First time i've heard this one, sounds like you're getting desperate again Ronnie. If any "Muslim" says The Prophet wasn't unlettered then...erm, they are going against the book at the centre of their entire system of beleifs and religion. The Qur'an?


<b><i>"Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper." (The Noble Qur'an 7.151)</i></b>


<i>Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided." (The Noble Qur'an 7.158)"</i>


And i think most other transtlations replace unlettered with he who cannot read and write which means the same thing, doesn't matter. So...where do you go with this one now Ronnie? Nowhere as usual. Sigh, why do you do this. It doesn't help you.


I know the whole Mohammed (Peace and blessings be upon him) being illiterate thing is very frustrating for Christians and orientalists but it is true. So, if any "Muslim" says it isn't true he is diagreeing with his own book. How do you explain this one? So oops that one doesn't work either....NEXT! Hope that's cleared things up Ron! What other wacky madness will you come up with to try and justify Christianity. Maybe Jesus wrote Qur'an!! Subhan-Allah


Personally some advice...i would really think about the statements you put up here, because ones like this make you seem more ignorant of Islam then i know you really are. And makes you look like a desperate Christian trying to pick any kind of holes in Islam, so you can sleep better at night. Just some advice it's up to you how you take it.

[Muslimah]

<b>Bismillah
</b>


Praise be to Allah and prayer and peace be upon His Messenger Mohamed, his household and companions.


" [Musa (Moses)] said: "O my Lord! Open for me my chest (grant me self-confidence, contentment, and boldness)* And ease my task for me*And make loose the knot (the defect) from my tongue* That they understand my speech" (Quran 20:25-28)


as salam alykom brothers and sisters


Peace to u ronniv


Insh a Allah I will try and respond to your original post.


1. We dont arrogantly say we respect Eassa peace and prayer be upon him more than Christians do. We just say we respect him much as a Prophet and Messenger enjoying a unique position in the eyes of Allah, enjoying many advantages that Allah Granted him such as healing the leprosy, reviving the dead with the Will of Allah... and more. The most important for example is that he spoke in the cradle to prove his mother's innocense from committing zina (sex outside the wedlock). When he spoke he said I am the servant of Allah. Now all these traits deserves much respect from us to him being a prophet. Mind u I think on another thread someone esle told u we are commanded by Quran to respect and rever all Prophets and Messengers without differentiation.


"The Messenger (Muhammad ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, <b>and His Messengers. They say, "We make no distinction between one another of His Messengers</b>" (Quran 2:285)


Mind u the Messengers here include from Adam down to Mohamed peace and prayers upon all of them.


There are many other Ayahs in Quran that teach us the same, I just dont want to insert many Quran for u.


2. As for why we dont follow Eassa's teachings, because we follow Allah's Teachings brought in Quran which supercedes over all other books:


"<b>And when there came to them (the Jews), a Book (this Qur'an) from Allah confirming what is with them [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)], although aforetime they had invoked Allah (for coming of Muhammad ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ) in order to gain victory over those who disbelieved, then when there came to them that which they had recognised, they disbelieved in it. So let the Curse of Allah be on the disbelievers.
</b>" (Quran 2:89)


"<b>And when it is said to them (the Jews), "Believe in what Allah has sent down," they say, "We believe in what was sent down to us." And they disbelieve in that which came after it, while it is the truth confirming what is with them. Say (O Muhammad ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ to them): "Why then have you killed the Prophets of Allah aforetime, if you indeed have been believers
</b>?"


(Quran 2:90)


Thus Jews and Christians were commanded to believe in Quran, why would we dont?


"And when there came to them a Messenger from Allah (i.e. Muhammad ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ) confirming what was with them, a party of those who were given the Scripture threw away the Book of Allah behind their backs as if they did not know!" (Quran 2:101)


Again looking at all the above mentioned noble Ayahs of Quran, u will easily find out why we dont follow Eassa's teachings.


3. What is more important ronniv is that Eassa himself was nothing but a Muslim.


We already put this info on another thead but no harm.


Allah Never Sent any Prophet or Messenger to call for anyother religion but Islam and Allah The One Deity.


Again given the above mentioned, we say salam alykom, bow while praying, and do whatever was instructed to us by Quran and Sunnah (acts of the Messenger salla Allah alyhee wa sallam) whom we are commanded to learn from per the Ayah:


"And whatsoever the Messenger (Muhammad ﻢﻠﺳﻭ ﻪﻴﻠﻋ ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻰﻠﺻ) gives you, take it, and whatsoever he forbids you, abstain (from it), and fear Allah. Verily, Allah is Severe in punishment" (Quran 59:7)


Again there are many other verses with the same meaning just dont want to give u much Quran.


Brothers and sisters. ronniv is asking important questions, whether or not she wants to learn is not our concern. But she did come to a Muslim board to ask other wise how can she get access to such info. If we dont provide correct info she might go and get distorted info. We just need to re articulate our aim here from defending Islam into teaching Islam.

[umm Zachariah]

Assalamu aleikum,


You have already said so many good things just want to emphasise on some.


About that Jesus, pbuh, is honoured in the Qur'an,


"Remember when the Angels said, " Oh Mary! Verily Allah gives you the glad tidings of a word from Him, His name will be Masih, I’sa, son of Mary held in honour in this world and in the hereafter
, and will be one of those who are close to Allah. He shall speak to the people in childhood and maturity and he shall be in the company of the righteous ones." 3:45-46


About Muhammad, saws. 'The unlettered prophet' as already has been quoted from the Qur'an here, so I don't have to repeat it, it is clear enough.


Ronniv, you asked HOW the revelations were written down. And sister Laian did explained that the Jibreel forwarded the revelations from Allah, SWT to the Prophet, saws. He then recited what he heard and then his companions wrote the revelations down on anything available, date palms leaves, flat stones, tree bark, wood, dried animal skins. And this way the verses of the Qur'an were preserved in the hearts of the Muslims, as well as written down, during the lifetime of the Prophet, saws.


So it is interesting to note that if ALL the books in the world would be destroyed, there is only ONE that will still be intact by memory and heart, the Qur'an, since there are so many Muslims that know it by heart. And it could be written down on paper again and again with the EXACT same wording as the revelations to the Prophet of Islam, saws. Subhan'Allah, Allahu Akbar.


Wasalam

[Muslimah]

O ronniv regardless of the disrespectful tone u used while asking did the Messenger salla Allah a`lhyee wa sallam see Allah write Quran.


i will still answer in a respectful manner since it is a point u brought.


No ronniv laian and Umm explained how Quran was transmitted


But why he didnt see it being written because:


"No vision can grasp Him, but His Grasp is over all vision. He is the Most Subtle and Courteous, Well Acquainted with all things." (Quran 6;103)


As u can see Allah Can not be seen at all while He Sees all.


On how Quran was transmitted to jebreel, this is part of the unknown in which we have to belive. The most important point is that we have it in hand Alhamdulelah.


I know u must be saying O boy i just asked a simple question and look the responses. Well we must ronniv.


And Insh a Allah by time u will understand more. And we are no scholars just regular Muslims Alhamdulelah.

[ronniv93]

So...where do you go with this one now Ronnie? Nowhere as usual. Sigh, why do you do this. It doesn't help you.

You are very quick to come to certain conclusions without having examined anything whatsoever about the topic.


Where I have gotten this from IS some Muslims themselves. The very word you used "unlettered", the say, MAY mean illiterate but has also been used to refer to people who have never received any type of scripture or revelation before. I am not making these things up.

I know the whole Mohammed (Peace and blessings be upon him) being illiterate thing is very frustrating for Christians and orientalists but it is true.

Actually, we couldn't care less, since it does not prove anything anyway. An illiterate man who SPOKE words that were written down by others is not miraculous. So, frankly the topic doesn't challenge us in any way. Now, if a person said that he was illiterate AND ALSO miraculously WROTE some "masterpiece", then THAT would catch my attention.


Or a person who was mute their whole lives, somehow missing some body part allowing for speech AND THEN they spoke... now THAT would be attention-grabbing as well. But to point to a man, illiterate, and say that he SPOKE the Quran?? How is that supposed to be frustrating for us? I have never gotten that one. Why would we feel threatened by that?

So, if any "Muslim" says it isn't true he is diagreeing with his own book. How do you explain this one?

As I have stated above.... That some say that the word IN ARABIC does not mean (or is not limited to) illiteracy, but also refers to those who do not possess any scriptures - hence, unlettered.

Hope that's cleared things up Ron!

It didn't because you didn't bring any evidence of anything. However, I will.

Question:  Is the meaning of the word “ummi” illiterate or not? Please clarify.
Answer: Conventionally the word can mean ‘illiterate’ but when the Qur’an uses the word “ummi” for the Prophet, it does not imply that he was illiterate in the conventional sense. What it means is that the Prophet’s mind was not touched by a human teacher but rather he was like a flower nourished by the eternal Gardener. In other words, the Prophet had intuitive knowledge given to him by Allah. Reading and writing are some of the tools required to acquire knowledge but when the knowledge is had, there is no need to read or write. This special characteristic of the Prophet is one of the specific challenges that the author of the Qur’an is Allah and not a human being.


Source:  AlMizan

The Qur'an reveals


Prophet Muhammad was "Ummi"


but that does not denote the Prophet was illiterate...


The Qur'an tells us that


Prophet Muhammad was sent to "Ummiyyiina" (plural of Ummi)


but that does not denote


the Arabs of Arabia


were illiterate...


Source:


Most Merciful.com

Now, you can say that these people are not truly Muslim, they aren't good sources, etc., etc. But you CANNOT say that I just pulled these things out of the air.

What other wacky madness will you come up with to try and justify Christianity. Maybe Jesus wrote Qur'an!! wacko.gif Subhan-Allah

How do you think that THIS issue somehow justifies Christianity? It has nothing to do with justifying anything.

Personally some advice...i would really think about the statements you put up here, because ones like this make you seem more ignorant of Islam then i know you really are.

And my advice is to wait and hear the whole story before jumping to conclusions.

[ronniv93]

To all others who have offered responses, let me say that <b>I KNOW</b> what Muslims believe about how the Quran was transmitted. The point of my question to Anyabwile was to emphasize the fact that ALL books were written - in the literal sense - by human hands.


The Quran is no different from any other book.


The only thing that I know and believe was NOT written by human hands were the original 10 commandments given by God to Moses. There, miraculously, God Himself actually "wrote" them down. Other than that, EVERYTHING was written by human hands.


It is only FAITH that prompts or moves any of us to believe that our respective scriptures are more than just the PRODUCT of human thought and invention, but actual divinely REVEALED words. Out of all that I have read, there has never been enough to prove that the Quran was divinely revealed. For all that YOU all have read, there is nothing that proves that the Bible was divinely revealed.


Same for any other religion. There are some things that are taken on faith.


Now, for me and many other Christians, we actually see the manifestation of the things written in the Bible AND FOR US, that serves as proof.


But anyway, point being.... ALL books were WRITTEN by human hands. But it is faith that leads you all to believe that an angel actually appeared to your prophet and spoke the words to him which he then recited to others.

[ronniv93]

Muslimah,


One quick question for you.


You said:

The most important for example is that he spoke in the cradle to prove his mother's innocense from committing zina (sex outside the wedlock).

What would be the purpose of this "miracle" since Mary was married to Joseph? People would just assume (as they did) that Jesus' was Joseph's son.


She wasn't a single mother.

[umm Zachariah]

Hi Ronniv,


Sorry to bump in here - but the question you raise to sister Muslimah is interesting. I see it as a dilemma - for Christianity.


IF the OT speaks of the coming Messiah as Gods son, astaghfirullah, then it can not have been so remarkable if people at that time did not believe he wasn't who he said he was. If on one hand it was said he was Messiah and on the other hand that his father was Joseph. This does not go along, since the true Messiah was not supposed to have an earthly father. Who could then blame people if they didn't believe in him if they were told that Messiah HAD a father, Joseph, as you are saying here? Then it make sense that he cannot be Messiah. Astathfirullah. This is how I understand what you are saying. And it also gives the impression to play a charade since it is all about fooling people to believe what is not true (that Joseph is the father) and to protect his mother, that Allah, SWT already is protecting? It doesn't make sense as I see it.


Regards

[Rehmat]

Where I have gotten this from IS some Muslims themselves.

You mean your friendly answering-islam website full of Jewish myths about Islam.

MAY mean illiterate but has also been used to refer to people who have never received any type of scripture or revelation before. I am not making these things up.

That dumb logic of yours could make over six billion people ‘illitrates’, with the exception of Rev. Moon, George Bush, plus few TV evangelists and a few Israeli Rabbis, who say God speaks to them.

Actually, we couldn't care less, since it does not prove anything anyway. An illiterate man who SPOKE words that were written down by others is not miraculous.

Stealing words from ‘answering-islam’ again ‘Iznogoodh’ – “Koran was written by TEN JEWS’ which I answered you on ‘the other website’ by posting a website by the Jews – maybe you should read it now!


http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229...-for-Allah.html

[Rehmat]

What would be the purpose of this "miracle" since Mary was married to Joseph?  People would just assume (as they did) that Jesus' was Joseph's son. 
She wasn't a single mother.

Hmmmmmm!


Ever heard of Barnabas dude? In his Gospel, he confirms that Mary was engaged to her cousin Joseph (not married). When she told Joseph about her revelation of being chosen by Jewish G-d (don't forget she was Jewish and decendant of Jewish prophet Imran) to be 'mother to the Jewish Promised Mesiah' - he decided not to marry her till the birth of the baby. When Mary gave birth to Jesus at the age of 12 or 13 - Both got married.


But, this is against the 'version' of Jewish Talmud, which states that Jesus was an illegitimate product of Mary being raped by a Roman soldier - PANDORA (sic), may be that's why later some filthy Jew painted Jesus as a White man