Jesus In Islam - Printable Version

Jesus In Islam - Printable Version

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Jesus In Islam - ronniv93 - 01-11-2005

This question has come to the forefront of my mind particularly due to something I saw on another thread and also from some things we're covering in this Christian theology course I am taking right now.

Muslims say that they revere Jesus. Some are even arrogant enough to say that they love and respect Jesus more than Christians do. But in what way or what manner?

The only thing I hear is that 1) Muslims repeat "Peace be unto you" all the time to each other (which, BTW, was NEVER commanded by Jesus to do) and 2) Muslims bow when they pray (but nothing is unique about this, because Christians, Jews and a host of other religions bow in prayer or meditation as well).

CLEAR teachings by Jesus, however, seem to go unnoticed or ignored by Muslims.

One example is when the Sadducees came to Jesus and asked Him a question:

Quote:Matt. 22:23 On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Jesus and questioned Him,
24 asking, "Teacher, Moses said, `IF A MAN DIES HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP CHILDREN FOR HIS BROTHER.'

25 "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no children left his wife to his brother;

26 so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh.

27 "Last of all, the woman died.

28 "In the resurrection, therefore, whose wife of the seven will she be? For they all had married her."

29 But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures nor the power of God.

30 "For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

Islam clearly teaches this concept of marriages in heaven, however.

Jesus stated outright to them that they obviously had no understanding of the scriptures to think that people marry or are given in marriage in heaven.

Why are straightforward teachings of Jesus such as this ignored and even contradicted by Islam?

Jesus In Islam - Anyabwile - 01-11-2005

The thing is, using the Bible as a reference for anything is very shaky. We're going by a book written by men, which has been altered countless times through history written so many hndreds of years after Christ, which has sections of it which Christians themselves say shouldn't be there, which isn't Divine etc etc etc and saying this is what Jesus said. There's nothing to hold on to as solid in the Bible. As a Muslim i would only regard as truth in the bible what coincided with it the Qur'an, as a non Muslim i wouldn't even look to the Bible for anykind of truth. As i learn more about it, and read it more, it becomes sadly more and more pointless. Christian Biblical scholars themselves tell us it's not fully Divine, and mostly altered, so what are we supposed to think when reading it as non Christians. You keep fighting it Ronni but there's no where to go...

Jesus In Islam - ronniv93 - 01-11-2005

Quote:We're going by a book written by men,

Oh, so you're saying that the Quran wasn't written by men? Did Muhammad see the "hand of God" writing onto pieces of paper or something?

Quote:which has been altered countless times through history written so many hndreds of years after Christ,

Prove to me that this passage is incorrect or has been corrupted or inserted. And what would have been the reason or motive for adding these supposed "false words" into Jesus' mouth? If one cannot show me that THIS PASSAGE was somehow purposely altered then there's no argument. We must deal with the passage as is unless you can prove it to be falsified.

Quote:There's nothing to hold on to as solid in the Bible.

Well, THAT is quite false. I see things in the Bible all the time that are solid. The Bible has proven itself over and over and over again. Not only in my life but the lives of people all around me.

The promises in the Bible stand true and come to pass just as God has spoken it. So, I speak from experience on the matter. Miracles have taken place IN TODAY'S TIME as in the past just as the Bible speaks of. Blessings come into my life just as the Bible promises. Thus, I cannot agree with you that there is nothing solid in the Bible.

And in any case, why can't the passage I posted simply be dealt with and answered? Muslims pick and choose selective verses to try to prove to Christians that they respect Jesus but then all of a sudden want to go back to calling the Bible corrupt when there's something that is contradictory to the Quran.

There is no scientific or factual basis for this picking-and-choosing. It seems to be based upon desire - what a person wants to believe and what they don't. THAT is what's not solid to me.

Quote:Christian Biblical scholars themselves tell us it's not fully Divine, and mostly altered,

Okay, so should I accept the words of some Islamic scholars who say that the Quran has different Arabic versions or that some ayats of the Quran are missing or were left out? Or what about the people who say that there were some verses (i.e., the so-called "satanic verses") that WERE in the Quran but later removed.

Will you stop being Muslim because some other Muslims believe these kinds of things?

Quote:You keep fighting it Ronni but there's no where to go...

No fighting of anything. I just asked a question.

Jesus In Islam - Anyabwile - 01-11-2005

Your way of speaking is becoming increasingly offensive, but i'll continue. For example here....

Quote:Oh, so you're saying that the Quran wasn't written by men? Did Muhammad see the "hand of God" writing onto pieces of paper or something?

you know clearly what i mean, yet the usual Christian attempt to have a little poke is used. Forget i said written by men then, if you really want to do this kind of back and forth then forget i said written by men. What i should have said was the bible isn't the direct word of God. It's what men have documented and jotted down changing bits here and there as they please. Christians agree with me as far as the changing goes. You seem to be the only one who doesn't.

Quote:Prove to me that this passage is incorrect or has been corrupted or inserted. And what would have been the reason or motive for adding these supposed "false words" into Jesus' mouth? If one cannot show me that THIS PASSAGE was somehow purposely altered then there's no argument. We must deal with the passage as is unless you can prove it to be falsified.

Once again, where did i say the passage was altered, i was simply saying i'm not interested in taking it as any kind of fact, simply because of where it came from. What is the bible? Is it the Divine un altered words of God like the Qur'an? Or is it a mess of changes, alterations and stories. If there was something in the Bible which seemed likely Jesus said, outside of the Qur'an i'd probably go with it. But anything else, like directly opposing what is said in the Qur'an, i wouldn't feel comfortable taking as fact.

Quote:I cannot agree with you that there is nothing solid in the Bible.

And there's a surprise...you're forgetting i've actually read through this thing. And am reading it now. [Image: wink.gif]

Quote:Muslims pick and choose selective verses to try to prove to Christians that they respect Jesus.

I thought you've read the Qur'an? Have you actually read the chapters on Mary "chosen above women of all nations" and the chapters on Jesus? To say that we pick and choose things to try and show we respect Jesus is either something you've mistakenly said at the spur of the moment just now, or is something you've said because you haven't actually read the Qur'an, even though i belive you told us you had. Jesus is mentioned by name something like 25 times more than The Prophet is (Peace be upon them both)

Quote:Okay, so should I accept the words of some Islamic scholars who say that the Quran has different Arabic versions or that some ayats of the Quran are missing or were left out? Or what about the people who say that there were some verses (i.e., the so-called "satanic verses") that WERE in the Quran but later removed.

It's funny how you say this like it's something i should stop in my tracks suprised about. I know of the oddballs who have said all of these things, this is the stuff i got assaulted with when i first became Muslim remeber, i have looked into it all, and seen it's all the usual quite honestly, tedious shock tactics one or two people resort to get some attention. If this kind of thing was going to stop me being Muslim i would have stopped when i was first shown these things and claims about the Qur'an. But i havent,i looked into it, i've read everyhting possible on and offline and found all the claims to be completely untrue and have moved on. It's only when you breifly read it you think "hold on what this" then you read about the people, their history and the lies start to seep out of their works. But you don't want to hear this so...however start a new post is the Qur'an the word of God has it been tampered, and the others here will be able to give you better responses with more detail than i ever could. I would simply sigh and say "Yes..yes it is the word of god" and leave it there. [Image: tongue.gif]

I can confidently say with my hand on my heart the Qur'an is untouched, not only because since it was revelead it has been fully memorised by a large number of Muslims in their heart who have a special name i forget now, so this erases any added verses and whatever in it anyway. It's been memorised from day one to beginning to end. I can confidently say with my hand on my heart the Qur'an is untouched because i belive it to be the word of God and it says in it, that it will be be Guarded from corruption. So if i belive in God as a Muslim i belive it's been guarded...but this wouldn't be enough for you i understand so...i can also say with my hand on my heart the Qur'an is untouched because after having to research myself into whether it was or not, as far as i can with my limited talents in this field do, i came away confident it wasn't and thus i am Muslim. You're forgetting Ronni, i've had all these cheap tactics before the first few months i was Muslim, honestly i have, it's not new to me. Been there and done it all.

So i can say with my hand on my heart 100% confidence, that the Qur'an is untouched, whether you belive me or not is irrelevant, i can actually personally from my heart, say this with 100% confidence, the Qur'an is completely untouched...can you do the same with the Bible Ronnie?

Quote:Will you stop being Muslim because some other Muslims believe these kinds of things?

Wow thanks a lot, you sound like my ex. "you became Muslim because they forced you to be" Forgetting, as i have told you now several times, i became Muslim because i looked into all other religions, found them to be completely unsatisfactory, Christianity being the worst as far as authenticy what with it being tampered with etc and chose Islam.

This was when i was Agnostic. So saying i'm Muslim because i belive what other Muslims think would be a fair accusation....if it was true. Thank you for resorting to the old patronising tactics and style of writing we used to both go at each other with. Why i don't know, i thought we were doing ok just debating. Still...

You know full well i can battle if this is what you want...seems so. Look at my early posts to you, i was trying my best with Allah as my witness. But yeah we can do this if you want. It's good sparring practise. I get this stuff daily. [Image: laugh.gif]

Jesus In Islam - laian - 01-11-2005

I just want to comment on one thing here...

Ronni, the Qur'an was not AUTHORED by men. And in fact, mohammed saws did not write it either. Mohammed saws was illiterate, he could not write. He was given the Qur'an by memory, he memorized it as it was told to him. Later, his companions wrote it down. Allah swt was the author, and the fact that it was revealed by memorization only is subhanAllah, a miracle, because now it is sunnah to memorize the Qur'an and millions of muslims memorize it so that if every single written copy of the Qur'an were destroyed, we would still have it in full subhanAllah.

Jesus In Islam - ronniv93 - 01-11-2005

Anya, you missed many of the points I was trying to make.

For instance, when I asked if you would stop being Muslim because of what some other Muslims say or think, I asked it KNOWING that you wouldn't.

You try to convince me to believe certain things just because SOME so-called Christians believe it. But why should I? You don't believe everything that SOME so-called Muslims believe and promote, right?

My point is that you can quote whomever you want to day and night. But I do the research for myself to see what is true and what is false. The same as you say you did with the Quran and Islam. You now stand firmly in your faith DESPITE the attacks or challenges that others (Muslim or non-Muslim) may make. Neither do I waiver in MY faith based upon what people (Christian or non-Christian) may say.

Jesus In Islam - Anyabwile - 01-11-2005

Ok this is good. Let's leave it here then.

Jesus In Islam - Anyabwile - 01-11-2005

I don't mean leave your question here, i just mean the mini wars. You said good words for us to end it on so i'm dipping out here.

*DIP*

Jesus In Islam - ronniv93 - 01-12-2005

Quote: Mohammed saws was illiterate, he could not write.

Just a side note.... There is not even consensus in the Muslim community that this is true.

Jesus In Islam - Rehmat - 01-12-2005

Quote:Just a side note.... There is not even consensus in the Muslim community that this is true.

Hmmmmm!

Who said that? Pope John Paul II or Rabbi Theodor Herzl [Image: rolleyes.gif]

NOTE: The proper English word is UN-LETTERED - Which is one of the charactristics of THE PROPHET as prophesized in the OT and NT.