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Bismillah:
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This question has God bound by space and time: "Can God create a rock that He cannot lift?" For in order for something to be moved, it must travel in space. It must also be limited by time because there is a beginning action for the movement then a conclusion.
Muslims believe that Allah is not bound by space and time. He Created them. Christians believe that God IS bound by space and time because Jesus was fully human and divine. In order for Jesus to exist on earth, he had to take up a space and only that space. If Jesus (in his bodily form) was in more than one place then he is not fully human. Jesus was also bound by time, birth, maturation, and death. Even his accension to heaven had to involve both time and space. This concpet has the Creator bound by his own creation.
Like in the pottery analogy, if I make a vase, is part of my essence, my being in that vase? No. but people can know that i made that vase due to the clues of style and art that are in that vase. I am not bound by the vase yet people can still get to know me on some levels. But since that vase is not who I am then they can never know me fully.
I am also wondering something else. Jesus is fully divine and his body was raised from the dead to live eternally, am I correct? If that is correct, then does that mean when Jesus went to heaven that all of the dead skin cells, hair, blood, etc that he shed over the course of his life also went to heaven with him? If they remained behind, does not that mean that part of God died since Jesus was fully divine? If not, then all those cells are still living outside of Jesus so there are millions of pieces of God?
Assalamo ALikum brother Dan. great to see you after long time.
welcome back.
Assalamo Alikum
Wael
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Bismillah
"Jesus was fully man AND fully God."
That is the jist of it. Divine is eternal. Man is not. A room cannot be square and round. An animal cannot have both the properties of a dog and a sea snake (or whatever). Either Jesus had cells that died (man) or he had cells that are eteranl (divine). Something cannot be dead and living in the same moment.
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Quote:Bismillah
"Jesus was fully man AND fully God."
That is the jist of it. Divine is eternal. Man is not. A room cannot be square and round. An animal cannot have both the properties of a dog and a sea snake (or whatever). Either Jesus had cells that died (man) or he had cells that are eteranl (divine). Something cannot be dead and living in the same moment.
God can do anythigng. You believe that don't you?
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Bismillah:
Quote:God can do anythigng. You believe that don't you?
I say God <b>CANNOT DO ANYTHING.</b>
I can give you a list of things which God cannot do because it is not of His attributes.
God can never be thought of as doing an <b>ungodly act</b>. Hence we cannot imagine God telling a lie, being unjust, making a mistake, forgetting things, or having any such human failings. Similarly God can do injustice if He chooses to, but He will never do it because being unjust is an ungodly act.
The Qur’an says:
"Allah is never unjust In the least degree." [Al-Qur’an 4:40]
God can be unjust if He chooses to be so, but the moment God does injustice, <b>He ceases to be God.</b>
- God can make mistakes if He wants to, but He does not make mistakes because making a mistake is an <b>ungodly act</b>. The Qur’an says:
"…my Lord never errs." [Holy Qur’an 20:52]
The moment God makes a mistake, <b>he ceases to be God.</b>
- God can forget if He wants to. But God does not forget anything because forgetting is an <b>ungodly act</b>, which reeks of human limitations and failings. The Qur’an says: "…my Lord never errs, nor forgets." [Al-Qur’an 20:52]
Many religions at some point believe, directly or indirectly, in the philosophy of <b>anthropomorphism i.e. God becoming a human</b>. Their contention is that Almighty God is so pure and holy that He is unaware of the hardships, shortcomings and feelings of human beings. In order to set the rules for human beings, He came down to earth as a human. This deceptive logic has fooled countless millions through the ages.
God Almighty <b>need not come down personally </b> for giving the instruction manual to His people, or for <b>offering Himself to be crucified for the sins of His creation</b>. He simply chooses a man amongst men to deliver the message and communicates with him at a higher level through the medium of revelations. Such chosen men are called messengers and prophets of God. God Almighty never became His creation. But he can do that if he chooses. <b>But the moment God become a human being, he ceases to be God.</b>
Salam.
Wael.
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Quote:Bismillah:
I say God <b>CANNOT DO ANYTHING.</b>
I can give you a list of things which God cannot do because it is not of His attributes.
God can never be thought of as doing an <b>ungodly act</b>. Hence we cannot imagine God telling a lie, being unjust, making a mistake, forgetting things, or having any such human failings. Similarly God can do injustice if He chooses to, but He will never do it because being unjust is an ungodly act.
The Qur’an says:
"Allah is never unjust In the least degree." [Al-Qur’an 4:40]
God can be unjust if He chooses to be so, but the moment God does injustice, <b>He ceases to be God.</b>
- God can make mistakes if He wants to, but He does not make mistakes because making a mistake is an <b>ungodly act</b>. The Qur’an says:
"…my Lord never errs." [Holy Qur’an 20:52]
The moment God makes a mistake, <b>he ceases to be God.</b>
- God can forget if He wants to. But God does not forget anything because forgetting is an <b>ungodly act</b>, which reeks of human limitations and failings. The Qur’an says: "…my Lord never errs, nor forgets." [Al-Qur’an 20:52]
Many religions at some point believe, directly or indirectly, in the philosophy of <b>anthropomorphism i.e. God becoming a human</b>. Their contention is that Almighty God is so pure and holy that He is unaware of the hardships, shortcomings and feelings of human beings. In order to set the rules for human beings, He came down to earth as a human. This deceptive logic has fooled countless millions through the ages.
God Almighty <b>need not come down personally </b> for giving the instruction manual to His people, or for <b>offering Himself to be crucified for the sins of His creation</b>. He simply chooses a man amongst men to deliver the message and communicates with him at a higher level through the medium of revelations. Such chosen men are called messengers and prophets of God. God Almighty never became His creation. But he can do that if he chooses. <b>But the moment God become a human being, he ceases to be God.</b>
Salam.
Wael.
That is correct. God cannot sin of course and do anything unholy or tolerate anything unholy....
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Bismillah:
Quote:That is correct. God cannot sin of course and do anything unholy or tolerate anything unholy....
exactly this is what we are trying to say CC, God ALSO cannot become a man for the following reasons:
- <b>God is immortal; human beings are mortal</b>. You cannot have a <i>‘God-man’ </i> i.e. an immortal and mortal being <b>at the same time</b>. It is meaningless.
- <b>God does not have a beginning</b>. Human beings have a beginning (Jesus was BORN of a virgin on spicific day). <b>You cannot have a person, who does not have a beginning and yet at the same time having a beginning.</b>
- God has no end, human beings have an end.
- God is Divine, human beings are not. you cannot have God who is a Divine and human who are not at the same time. if God decided to become a man, that means he decided to become <b>less divine.</b>
- So an entity cannot be both: <b>God and a human </b> <b>at the same time</b>. For if God retains His divine powers then He is not a human because <b>humans do not have divine powers</b>. And if God were to become a mortal, which is a human quality, then <b>he is no longer God, for God is immortal. </b>
- Later on that same human being cannot become God, because it is not possible for human beings to become God. If it was so, you and I too would become God and attain divine powers.
That is the reason why <b>God will never take or rather cannot take human form</b>. The Qur’an speaks against all forms of <b>anthropomorphism. Anthropomorphism is illogical.</b>
Salam
Wael
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> You cannot have ... an immortal and mortal being at the same time
Interesting. According to the bible, each human has a mortal body and an immortal soul. I assume, from what you wrote, that muslims believe that humans are mortal only, and don't have an immortal soul? In other words, muslims don't believe in any sort of an afterlife?
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Bismillah:
Quote:> You cannot have ... an immortal and mortal being at the same time
Interesting. According to the bible, each human has a mortal body and an immortal soul. I assume, from what you wrote, that muslims believe that humans are mortal only, and don't have an immortal soul? In other words, muslims don't believe in any sort of an afterlife?
Please when you say <i>"according to the Bible" </i> try to support your claim with some verses from the Bible.
Another thing is that if we agree for the sake of argument that human beings are <b>"mortal and immortal"</b> at the same time, then Jesus pbuh became same as me and you, no difference. So if you call him God because he is mortal and immortal at the same time, then why don’t you consider other people as "Gods" too? They are mortal and immortal at the same time.
God is immortal which means that He is <b>living forever and never have a taste of death </b> like Jesus pbuh.
Christians have a problem of understanding "Tawheed" or monotheism. insha'Allah in another thread will try to explain what is Tawheed.
Salam
Wael.
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