Guidelines on interactions with Non-Muslims

[Muslimah]

Bismillah

> Friendship and love for them, inclining to them and


> being content with their disbelief is not permitted


Muslim males are allowed to take Christian and Jewish women as wives. But, you say that muslims are not allowed to love Christians or Jews. Therefore, under Islamic law, a Muslim male is not allowed to show any affection or friendship towards his non-Muslim wives. Correct???

What an irrelevant reply. The thread is introducing the general interrelation. The marriage issue is dealt with thru other Ayahs.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo ALikum.

I'll be honest. At first I joined this forum to learn more about Islam & interact with Muslims because that's what takes place on Catholic forums - we discuss Catholicism & non-Catholics interact with Catholics. I never expected so much bible-bashing & Christian criticism to occur here,

We do not bash the Bible or criticize any religion FHC, I am only using the Bible sometimes to show you that the issues which you object in Islam, is to be found in your own book of authority, but instead of pondering upon these verses, you and other Christians kept saying that we do not have the ability of understanding, since the Holy Ghost was not given to us as a <i>‘gift’</i>.

Please don't be upset, Wael. For the first time in ages, Reep has given me something to think about. That's what forum discussions are for. I'm not after textbook answers, I want you guys to use your minds & help me use mine.

Of course I am upset FHC, with due respect to reep or any other Christian in this world, but who are they to teach you about Islam?


The Qur’an is not just a textbook FHC, it is a guidance for those who fear Allah, so if you are not comfortable with the Qur’anic answers, <b>then we have no other answers for you</b>. Because any answer we may provide regarding Islam, will be based on the Qur’an and the teaching of our beloved Prophet pbuhh which do not contradict reason.


One of the glories of Islam is that it is founded upon reason, unlike certain other faiths, which insist upon their followers implicitly accepting certain dogmas without independent inquiry, but simply on the authority of "The Church/Your mother", The Prophet Muhammad pbuh once said: "Allah hath not created anything better than reason” he pbuh also said: "Verily, I tell you, a man may have performed prayers, fasts, charity, pilgrimage and all other good works, but he will not be rewarded but by the manner in which he hath used and applied his reason."


So if you are REALLY looking for reasoning and, willing to use your brain, then Islam is your proper place.

Most Islamic scholars are correct in acknowledging that Christians are monotheists. Please read the final paragraph of post #1: http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=4080 The impression I get (& Wael confirms this in that same thread) is that Muslims are confused about the Most Holy Trinity - Three Divine Persons subsisting in the One True God. Which is totally fine but my one request is that Muslims be humble enough to admit that they don't understand this truth rather than pretend to know what Christians believe & falsely accuse us of polytheism. I guess both sides need to be more open to learning. Just a suggestion

First of all, we do not consider the Trinity to be ‘<i>truth</i>’ AND we do not understand it, and so we do not believe that it has anything to do with God.


Secondly, we are not pretending to know what you believe, we have already posted thousands of quotes from Christians themselves presenting in plain English about what they believe, <b>so maybe you are considering them to be disbelievers.</b>


And lastly, we are not accusing Catholics of being polytheists; we are only using our <b>REASON</b> based on the Qur'an and that which was written in the Bible to conclude that your acts of worship are exactly <i>a photo copy</i> of how pagans of olden days used to worship their gods.


And please stop telling us that we do not understand what you believe, we are not fools, we can simply understand what is written in the Bible, but the problem here is that you are <i>ONLY </i> giving your ears to the Church and refused to use your OWN BRAIN or listen to any other opinion that contradict your beliefs. then how will you ever learn?


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

May the Love of God the Father, the Grace of His only-begotten Son & the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all!

We do not bash the Bible or criticize any religion FHC, I am only using the Bible sometimes to show you that the issues which you object in Islam, is to be found in your own book of authority,

I'm afraid there's a lot of Christian bashing & criticizing on this forum, Wael... but it's fine... I expect it! The only thing that bugs me is when you conduct a Bible Study as though Sacred Scripture is foreign to me. If it's not too much to ask, please refrain from "using" & abusing the Holy Bible when answering questions on Islam, especially if you believe in the doctrine of Taref, which I'm sure you do.

you and other Christians kept saying that we do not have the ability of understanding, since the Holy Ghost was not given to us as a <i>‘gift’</i>.

When have I ever said those things, bro?


There's a difference between "understanding" & "interpreting".


The Holy Ghost is God.

Of course I am upset FHC, with due respect to reep or any other Christian in this world, but who are they to teach you about Islam?

Please don't be upset :( Let's call it even... you teach us about the Bible & Reep will teach us about the Quran :lol: :D :P

The Qur’an is not just a textbook FHC, it is a guidance for those who fear Allah, so if you are not comfortable with the Qur’anic answers, <b>then we have no other answers for you</b>. Because any answer we may provide regarding Islam, will be based on the Qur’an and the teaching of our beloved Prophet pbuhh which do not contradict reason.

I learnt a very important lesson at Uni today (I actually thought of you guys in my Philosophy class). Considering I should be studying/revising right now, I'll explain it to you & kill 2 birds with 1 stone :D


The 4 stages of cognition are: perceiving, conviction, understanding, dialectic. When you say the Quran states "this" or "that", you're sticking me in stage 1 (taking notions at face value) while you're stuck in stage 2 (faith & belief). If you read over the thread you might realize that Reep jumped to stage 3 (reasoning from premise to conclusion). We haven't quite reached the final stage yet (rational reasoning) but Insh a Allah, we will soon enough.


In other words, please don't just tell us what the Quran says... explain to us why it says what it says. Turn our ignorance (& your opinions) into knowledge!!!

One of the glories of Islam is that it is founded upon reason


So if you are REALLY looking for reasoning and, willing to use your brain, then Islam is your proper place.

Great! Let's start putting this theory into practice :) Yalla, that's why we're all here!

First of all, we do not consider the Trinity to be ‘<i>truth</i>’ AND we do not understand it, and so we do not believe that it has anything to do with God.

I know, Mate! We established this a while back. Abdul is new to the boards so I just thought I'd bring him up to speed :)

Secondly, we are not pretending to know what you believe, we have already posted thousands of quotes from Christians themselves presenting in plain English about what they believe, <b>so maybe you are considering them to be disbelievers.</b>

If you'd like to know what "I" believe, then please ask "me" about "my" beliefs & "I'll" happily discuss "my" beliefs with you. But if wish to impose Christian views that you & thousands of others hold then I'm afraid you're braking up the wrong tree. I don't conform to anti-Catholic ways. I hope you can live with that.

And lastly, we are not accusing Catholics of being polytheists; we are only using our <b>REASON</b> based on the Qur'an and that which was written in the Bible to conclude that your acts of worship are exactly <i>a photo copy</i> of how pagans of olden days used to worship their gods.

Please elaborate & we shall get to the bottom of this, Insh a Allah.

And please stop telling us that we do not understand what you believe, we are not fools, we can simply understand what is written in the Bible, but the problem here is that you are <i>ONLY </i> giving your ears to the Church and refused to use your OWN BRAIN or listen to any other opinion that contradict your beliefs. then how will you ever learn?

:lol: You're so funny!!! I invite you to come spend a day with me, Wael. You can write some of my essays for me. Bring a box of panadol along!


Take care & God bless.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.


Assalamu alykum, Muslimah!

Sorry to just come in like that, FHC

It's always a pleasure, darl :)

why do u want to make the threads look like a fight, what punches are u talking about that u infidels are giving Wael?

:D It's kind of like a figure of speech, not to be taken literally. You know I love Wael.

And if u r learning from reepi about Islam, then why bother both of u for being here. U can simply ask him to teach u what islam is thu email. This is your choice to learn from reepi.

The whole point of having a forum is that we learn from each other through dialogue. This thread is great! It's only after dealing with every objection that one can fully understand a subject matter.

And by the way, I dont think that any one of us Muslims will be reluctant to agree that Quran openly called those who claim Jesus as their god infidels and Allah Does not love those who take associate with him.

I admire you for telling it like it is :thumb: Why do so many Muslims give us the wishy washy version?


& Ummm... sorry, I know this offends you, but to us, Jesus is Allah, not an associate, which is why this whole Ayah makes no sense whatever to us, hence, us being here... to discuss it!


Which Ayah are you referring to by the way? Could you please paste it so I can study it a little more? Thank you kindly :)

Just try to regain your own attitude dont get painted with others. For a change, I guess this was the motive that made wael tell u at the beginning you are the most respectful Christian he met. I m not putting words in his mouth.

Thanks Muslimah! You're like my big sister. You always know what to say. I think the world of you :)

But if u want to learn math, dont attend physics classes.

Hehe! It's more like watching a debate on equations between a mathematician & physicist. The physicist is no expert in maths, but he uses his skills in physics to challenge the mathematician ;)


God bless.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

I'm afraid there's a lot of Christian bashing & criticizing on this forum, Wael... but it's fine... I expect it! The only thing that bugs me is when you conduct a Bible Study as though Sacred Scripture is foreign to me. If it's not too much to ask, please refrain from "using" & abusing the Holy Bible when answering questions on Islam, especially if you believe in the doctrine of Taref, which I'm sure you do.

I am only presenting my understanding of Christianity without the influence of anyone else, I don’t depend entirely on the teaching of your Church and that’s why you can’t get what am saying, I guess the only solution is that you don’t read my views on the Bible and Christianity so you don’t get emotional.

The 4 stages of cognition are: perceiving, conviction, understanding, dialectic. When you say the Quran states "this" or "that", you're sticking me in stage 1 (taking notions at face value) while you're stuck in stage 2 (faith & belief). If you read over the thread you might realize that Reep jumped to stage 3 (reasoning from premise to conclusion). We haven't quite reached the final stage yet (rational reasoning) but Insh a Allah, we will soon enough.
In other words, please don't just tell us what the Quran says... explain to us why it says what it says. Turn our ignorance (& your opinions) into knowledge!!!

Ok which verse exactly do you want us to explain?

If you'd like to know what "I" believe, then please ask "me" about "my" beliefs & "I'll" happily discuss "my" beliefs with you. But if wish to impose Christian views that you & thousands of others hold then I'm afraid you're braking up the wrong tree. I don't conform to anti-Catholic ways. I hope you can live with that.

I respect your beliefs but I don’t see it related to the Bible which is suppose to be your book of authority. This is my opinion, you may ponder upon it or just ignore it, <b>no need to be defensive</b>.

Hehe! It's more like watching a debate on equations between a mathematician & physicist. The physicist is no expert in maths, but he uses his skills in physics to challenge the mathematician

And that’s why I am always quoting Bible experts/Scholars and yet you don’t even care about their views.


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory to God, peace on earth, good will to all!

I am only presenting my understanding of Christianity without the influence of anyone else, I don’t depend entirely on the teaching of your Church and that’s why you can’t get what am saying

Your views are your views, Wael. They can't be changed by me nor can they be imposed on me. This is an Islamic forum so you don't need to keep bringing up Christianity. If your aim is to turn me away from The Faith, then you have your work cut out for you.

I guess the only solution is that you don’t read my views on the Bible and Christianity so you don’t get emotional.

Haha! You know you want me to read them. You post them especially for me. I don't get emotional, champ! It's all good :thumb:

Ok which verse exactly do you want us to explain?

It's just a general principle. No verses come to mind at this time.

I respect your beliefs but I don’t see it related to the Bible which is suppose to be your book of authority. This is my opinion, you may ponder upon it or just ignore it, <b>no need to be defensive</b>.

I respect your opinions. I ponder on them a little. You're actually contributing to my future. After Uni, I intend on working closely with Muslims in an institute of Christian/Muslim relations (St Columban's Mission Society). Of course, I don't plan on having constant debates with them :lol: but my experiences here provide training & a preview of what's to come.

And that’s why I am always quoting Bible experts/Scholars and yet you don’t even care about their views.

I study their ideas at Uni. But in a board discussion on Catholicism, I' prefer to stick to Church sources. I'm waiting for the day that you quote the Catechism ;)


Take care & God bless.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

This is an Islamic forum so you don't need to keep bringing up Christianity.

I only bring up Christianity if needed. For example, when you insist that divorce is not allowed in Christianity, then I quote the Bible because you believe in it to be God’s words, when you say that polygamy is not allowed in Christianity, then I show you from your own Bible what it says about such subject etc… I am not quoting the Bible because I believe in it, No, but because <b>YOU</b> believe in it. It’s like if I wanted you to eat fresh vegetables for your health, but you insist on eating only hamburger although it is unhealthy, so when you visit me at home what will I serve you FHC? Of course hamburger, <b>because this is what YOU want to eat.</b> :)

If your aim is to turn me away from The Faith, then you have your work cut out for you.

Subhan Allah, who am I to turn anyone from the way he chooses?


(Verily, you (O Muhammad) guide not whom you like) (28:56)



(Not upon you (O Muhammad) is their guidance) (2:272),


(You are only a warner, and to every people there is a guide) (13:7)

Haha! You know you want me to read them. You post them especially for me. I don't get emotional, champ! It's all good

It is not important that you just read them FHC, what I really wanted you to do is to ponder over them and use your God given gift called <b>REASON</b>, but if you will keep posting your ‘<i>mockery</i>’ comments :P , then there is no need for you to approach these subjects. I know it is very sensitive to many.

It's just a general principle. No verses come to mind at this time.

Ok when you need any clarification about any verse in the Qur’an, please start a new thread and we will be more than glad to explain by Allah’s help insh a Allah.

I'm waiting for the day that you quote the Catechism

Don’t worry, the day might come, hopefully you will amaze us all by your interpretations. :D


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of the One True God - Father Son Holy Spirit.


May the peace of Christ be with you, Wael!

I only bring up Christianity if needed. For example, when you insist that divorce is not allowed in Christianity, then I quote the Bible because you believe in it to be God’s words, when you say that polygamy is not allowed in Christianity, then I show you from your own Bible what it says about such subject etc… I am not quoting the Bible because I believe in it, No, but because <b>YOU</b> believe in it.

Ummm... slight correction... you aren't quoting the Bible, you're <i>misquoting</i> biblical verses, totally taking them out of context & projecting you own meaning onto words. Which is fine if you keep it to yourself but the second you decide to take me to school, my head begins to ache :banghead:

It’s like if I wanted you to eat fresh vegetables for your health, but you insist on eating only hamburger although it is unhealthy, so when you visit me at home what will I serve you FHC? Of course hamburger, <b>because this is what YOU want to eat.</b> :)

Ahhh... but IslamMessage is a salad bar not Burger King. Please serve what's on the menu.

Subhan Allah, who am I to turn anyone from the way he chooses?


(Verily, you (O Muhammad) guide not whom you like) (28:56)



(Not upon you (O Muhammad) is their guidance) (2:272),


(You are only a warner, and to every people there is a guide) (13:7)

Alhamdulilah! I can't complain :)

Ok when you need any clarification about any verse in the Qur’an, please start a new thread and we will be more than glad to explain by Allah’s help insh a Allah.

Thanks Pal :thumb: But maybe I should do what you do & not ask for explanations but dictate them instead :P :D ;)

Don’t worry, the day might come, hopefully you will amaze us all by your interpretations. :D

:lol: You don't need anyone to interpret the Catechism for you. It's very basic. That's the whole point of it.


God bless you, Wael!

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Ummm... slight correction... you aren't quoting the Bible, you're <i>misquoting</i> biblical verses, totally taking them out of context & projecting you own meaning onto words.

<b>This is what you think.</b> am not going to argue anymore.


Anyway, enough going out of topic and let's stay focus please.


Salam


Wael.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Ok here is the Ayah/Ayahs you asked me to paste FHC, in response to another member who asked the same question, I compiled the Ayahs that address this issue, here is the link, your research assistant fees are inflating :) :


http://islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=2553&hl=


Read post #1


Now I see why u need to learn about Islam. Insh a Allah we will do our best to help you learn.


In order to avoid being caught by either Dan (who is very strict in off topic issues) or Muslimah :) I like to take your quote saying the no offense but Jesus is Allah.


BTW you are not offending any of us FHC, we know that this is whay you say, the Quran taught us that. why would I be offeded? why wouldnt I want to talk with u, if the Creator Who Created me, you, Jesus and his mother accepts your presence under His Canopy, sustanis u, Provides for you, watches for you, Protects you.....and if you sincerely ask Him for help and guidance, in less that a fraction of a second you will get it. If Allah Can Accept u while you are taking assocaites with Him, why would I be offended. He is offended yes, but He Is the All Patient. We must strive to attain some patience.


However, if you will take my intended disussion with u as bashing Nasraniah or just forcing it into the subject or making analogy, I will just maintain my previously stated position in respect for you being here to learn Islam. But do take our advice, FHC, and stop thinking or assuming that anyone is trying to turn you away from your faith.


See it is really inevitable to discuss with u when u for example compare or get amazed or or or without show u the truth, which I just did and u admired me for it. Others are doing the same but u feel they are bashing.


Thus, I have no problem of keeping my comments to myself and continue working on the Islamic topics which are mannnnay.


Matter of fact, as a group here we do compliment each other, each one of us Alhamdulelah was blessed by an area of knowledge from Allah that we all employ to serve Allah.


And also, not putting words on wael's mouth, but dont take all what he posts to be directed to u personally. He is here, points are raised, he knows how to approach, for the sake of Allah and to also cater for those silent members or potential members who may even come after we die. Thus, if we know the reply, we just put it when the question is not answered before.


I will take this quote to another thread and pursue further discussion probably the one started by TC who is not here for some reason... :) see you there :popc1: