Quote:the Gospel of Matthew, Luke and Mark were written around 60-70 A.D[/quote:ea05cdc938]Hello Amai, Is there a Gospel of Jesus too?

-- Ali

Quote:Hello Amai, Is there a Gospel of Jesus too? [/quote:6363a716f8]LOL. i meant, "Gospel According to" *sheepish grin*

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>according to you we must be considered non believers. [/quote:6363a716f8]well, [b:6363a716f8]nonbelievers[/b:6363a716f8] of Jesus' Divinity anyway.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So how would u imagine jesus would treat us or feel about us?[/quote:6363a716f8]treat and feel? hmmm.. what do you mean? when you're dead already?

Quote:LOL. i meant, "Gospel According to" *sheepish grin* [/quote:a1e2a1838d]

No perhaps You misunderstood me. I am just asking that if there is a Gospel of Jesus?

I am inquiring.



-- Ali

Quote:No perhaps You misunderstood me. I am just asking that if there is a Gospel of Jesus? I am inquiring.[/quote:ce9e427f3c]

yes. they're called:

the Gospel of Jesus according to Matthew

the Gospel of Jesus according to Luke

the Gospel of Jesus according to Mark

the Gospel of Jesus according to John

ehehehe...

Quote:He didn't pray to Himself, but to God the Father.[/quote:ce654e9a5e]Who is greater? The Creator, or the creation? If "I and my father are one" What is the sense of praying at all?

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>and right back at you: with the different versions of the Quran, how do you know you're reading the authentic one?[/quote:ce654e9a5e]I answered this already in another thread.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>what are their differences?.............[/quote:ce654e9a5e]If you want to know that, you just need to take you King James version and compare it to an older King James Version. It won't be difficult to get your hands on one.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>sorry, i don't believe because of emotions or opinions but of evidences.i can probably be moved with Harry Potter, Pride and Prejudice and Left Behind series but doesn't mean these books are true.[/quote:ce654e9a5e]

Ok amai, you want to compare the Bible to the Quran without having any knowledge of the Quran. And you won't read it for fear that you will be moved? And you say we are the ones who are dead? :?

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>i'd like to see manuscripts of Quran which can rival the number New testament's.[/quote:ce654e9a5e]The Quran, unlike the Bible is NOT a man made creation. Why then would there be manuscripts?

Quote:Who is greater? The Creator, or the creation? If "I and my father are one" What is the sense of praying at all? [/quote:3b16faa0aa]time has 3 elements: the past, present and future. but are there 3 times? no there's only one.

God has 3 persons: the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. but are there 3 Gods? no, there's only one.

let's assume we have a time machine.

if we say let's travel to the past, we're traveling through time. but are we traveling to our own time?

if the Son having a nature of Man prayed to the Father, He's praying to God. but is He praying to Himself?

and the Son isn't a "creation", He's our Creator.(Biblically speaking) He preexisted with the Father and the Holy Ghost from the beginning.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I answered this already in another thread. [/quote:3b16faa0aa]what thread?

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If you want to know that, you just need to take you King James version and compare it to an older King James Version. It won't be difficult to get your hands on one. [/quote:3b16faa0aa]i don't even have the current version of KJV, i read on online-Bibles.

and i also read that the Bible(KJV i believe) must be revised 20-25 years to "adjust" to the generation (with all those slangs and language simplicity) granted the true meaning of the text won't be altered.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ok amai, you want to compare the Bible to the Quran without having any knowledge of the Quran. And you won't read it for fear that you will be moved? And you say we are the ones who are dead? [/quote:3b16faa0aa]one time, i actually decided to read the Quran.

but on the first verses, i stopped. i haven't even read the Bible as a whole yet, yet i'm already reading the Quran.

maybe later.

and the "moved" thing, i just thought that's what you meant. i can't think of any reason on why you'll recommend the Quran.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The Quran, unlike the Bible is NOT a man made creation. Why then would there be manuscripts?[/quote:3b16faa0aa]because there are no printing press before 1400.

if there's no printing press, then the arabs before could only rely in copying it by hand.

the lack of manuscripts means there were very few "copyers" during that time.

since there are very few manuscripts or scrolls, how did a common muslim come to know "Allah's" message? by oral tradition? is that enough?

the lack of copies can also mean easier altering of the text. the handlers of the ancient Quran can easily edit the text since "no one would know the difference."

the 24,000 manuscripts of the Gospel which is 99% pure means that the early Christians couldn't edit it just that and that. the fact that they remain consistent to each other is another thing.

the "not man made" argument, in my opinion is not valid.

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Although I am sure u know what I mean, again Muslims are non believers of Jesus divinity right? Ok So what do u expect to happen to us? How are we looked at by him in all cases?[/quote:3b16faa0aa]sorry, but i really don't know. are you talking about right now or on the day of judgment?

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To start with, we are through with this, there are no versions of the Quran. The Quran is just one. One book since more than 1400 years Alhamdulelah. So this point is settled. [/quote:3b16faa0aa]the Quran on trial is not yet settled.(if that's what you're referring to) whisper presented a valid argument and showed the difference of 2 Quran translations. but purgatory claim that those only "claim to be Quran" but are not.

i believe in the Bible not because i've been brainwashed or closeminded, but because of the facts and evidences.

the Bible is scientifically, historically, geologically and archeologically consistent.(and accurate)

and Isaac Newton even...

a. [i:3b16faa0aa]Newton took his staggering genius…and [b:3b16faa0aa]applied it to the Bible[/b:3b16faa0aa]. Throughout his life he continually tested every claim, statement and assertion of the Bible against the physical truths of experimental and theoretical science. He was fluent in Hebrew and Greek, which enabled him to do his research in the original languages of the Bible. His personal notes on the Bible add up to more than a million words.

The result? According to his many biographers, he was never able to find a [b:3b16faa0aa]single contradiction[/b:3b16faa0aa] between science and the Bible. [b:3b16faa0aa]None.[/b:3b16faa0aa]

Here is what he concluded: "I have a fundamental belief in the [b:3b16faa0aa]Bible as the Word of God[/b:3b16faa0aa], written by men [b:3b16faa0aa]who were inspired.[/b:3b16faa0aa][/i:3b16faa0aa]

b. Isaiah knew that the earth was round a millenia before it was proven as a scientific fact. that's one proof of Divine Inspiration.

we have the Dead Sea Scrolls and Septuagint as our evidence.

does Quran have things like this?

[b:3b16faa0aa]and[/b:3b16faa0aa]

why would i believe in a book which has less evidence of being authentic?

p.s. do most muslims believe the theory of evolution?

Quote:You are wondering about lack of written documents. The Quran has been memorized by billions of people since the time of the Prophet. It is truly amazing. I've seen kids as young as five able to recite beginning to end. People can easily change a written text, but as someone mentioned in another thread, how can you change what is in the hearts and minds of millions? This is how the Quran remains unchanged to this day. [/quote:00f75ea718]ok then. but i wonder how those early Arabs memorized the Quran, when they don't even have their own copy? can you for instance, memorize the Quran if you rely only on oral tradition?

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="311" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You asked about science in the Quran. Do you know that the Quran taught how human life is concieved, and the growth of the embryo? These things were totally unknown to the people 1400 years ago. Actually this would be a great topic for a new thread.[/quote:00f75ea718]LOL. seriously? i've seen articles regarding this, but i usually ignore it. all i know is that this case have long been countered. i believe it's a case of plagiarism.

but isn't there a verse that states:

[i:00f75ea718]Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then We made out of that lump bones and clothed the bones with flesh" (23:14). [/i:00f75ea718]

from blood to lump, from lump to bones, and the bones are clothed with flesh? are we some kind of a wrapped gift? didn't science prove otherwise?