Do you happen to live anywhere near the Leeds/Bradford area? I have a question for if you do.

The thread about the origin of the Quran got me thinking and I wanted to provide the following for contrast.


<b>Question: "What is the canon of Scripture?"</b>


<b>Answer: </b> This is a very important question because Christianity does not start by defining God, or Jesus Christ, or salvation. The basis of Christianity is found in the authority of Scripture. If we can't identify what is Scripture, then we can't properly distinguish any theological truth from error.


The word "canon" comes from the rule of law that was used to determine if a book measured up to a standard. But it is important to note that the writings of Scripture were canonical at the moment they were written. Scripture was Scripture when the pen touched the parchment.


Concerning a measure or standard used to determine which books should be classified as Scripture, a key verse to understanding the process and purpose and perhaps timing of the giving of Scripture is Jude 3, which states that a Christian's faith "was once for all delivered to the saints." Since our faith is defined by Scripture, Jude is essentially saying that Scripture was given once, for the benefit of all Christians. Isn't it wonderful to know that there are no hidden or lost manuscripts yet to be found, there are no secret books only familiar to a select few, there are no people alive who have special revelation requiring us to trek up a Himalayan mountain in order to be enlightened?!! We can be confident that God has not left us without a witness. The same supernatural power God used to produce His word has also been used to preserve it.


Psalm 119:160 states that the entirety of God's word is truth. Starting with that premise, we can compare writings outside the accepted canon of Scripture to see if they meet the test. As an example, the Bible claims that Jesus Christ is God (Isaiah 9:6-7; Matthew 1:22-23; John 1:1, 2, 14; 20:28; Acts 16:31, 34; Philippians 2:5-6; Colossians 2:9; Titus 2:13; Hebrews 1:8; 2 Peter 1:1). Yet many extra-biblical texts, imagining to be Scripture, argue that Jesus is not God. When clear contradictions exist, the established Bible is to be trusted, leaving the others outside the sphere of Scripture.


In the early centuries of the church, Christians were sometimes put to death for possessing copies of Scripture (in those days books were in individual scrolls, not bound together in one binding as today). Because of this persecution, the question soon came up, "What books are worth dying for?" Some books may have contained sayings of Jesus, but were they inspired as stated in 2 Timothy 3:16? Church counsels played a role in publicly recognizing the "canon" of Scripture, but often an individual church or groups of churches recognized a book as inspired from its writing (e.g. Colossians 4:16; 1 Thessalonians 5:27). Throughout the early centuries of the church few books were ever disputed and the list was basically settled by A.D. 303.


When it came to the Old Testament, they had two important facts to consider: 1) Jesus quoted from every Old Testament book but two, and effectively endorsed the Hebrew canon in Matthew 23:35 when He cited one of the first narratives and one of the last in the Scriptures of His day. 2) The Jews were meticulous in preserving the Old Testament Scriptures, and they had few controversies over what parts belong or do not belong. The Roman Catholic Apocrypha did not measure up and fell outside of the definition of Scripture, and have never been accepted by the Jews.


Most questions about what books belong in the Bible dealt with writings from the time of Christ and forward. The early church had some very specific criteria in order for books to be considered as part of the New Testament. These included: Was the book written by someone who was an eyewitness of Jesus Christ? Did the book pass the "truth test"? (i.e. did it concur with other, already agreed upon Scripture?). The New Testament books they accepted back then have endured the test of time and Christian orthodoxy has embraced these, with little challenge, for centuries.


Confidence in the acceptance of specific books date back to the first century recipients, who offered firsthand testimony to their authenticity. Furthermore, the end-time subject matter of the book of Revelation, and the prohibition of adding to the words of the book in 22:18, argues strongly that the canon was closed at the time of its writing (c. A.D. 95).


There is an important theological point that we should not miss. God has used His word for millennia for one primary purpose: To communicate Himself to mankind. The church councils did not declare if a book was Scripture or not, God decided that when the human author was chosen by Him to write. In order to accomplish the end result, including the preservation of His word through the centuries, God guided the early church councils in their recognition of the canon.


The acquisition of knowledge regarding such things as the true nature of God, the origin of the universe and life, the purpose and meaning of life, the wonders of salvation, and future events (including the destiny of mankind) are beyond the natural observational and scientific capacity of mankind. The already delivered word of God, valued and personally applied by Christians for centuries, is sufficient to explain to us everything we need to know of Christ (John 5:18; Acts 18:28; Galatians 3:22; 2 Timothy 3:15) and to teach us, correct us, and instruct us into all righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16).


Link to artilce

We've discussed a lot about whether or not the bible teaches that Jesus is God. We've discussed certain passages such as John 1 at length. Earlier this morning I expanded my look into the matter and found the following.


I stand by the fact that the Bible teaches that Jesus is God.


Phillipians 2


<b>5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.</b>


Colosians 2


<b>8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. 9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; 10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.</b>


Titus 2


<b>11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. </b>


15 Speak these things, exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no one despise you


Psalm 45


<b> 6 Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;</b>


A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom


Quoted in Hebrews 1 as....


<b> 8 But to the Son He says:</b>


“ Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;


A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.


9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;


Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You


With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”


2 Peter


<b>1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ,</b>


To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:


<b>Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"</b>


<b>Answer:</b> Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?


John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!


Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior - Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."


In Revelation, an angel instructed the Apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation had. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.


The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected - proving His victory over sin and death

Do the original written copies of the Quran still exist today? If not then what is oldest surviving copy and how old is it and how has it been maintained?


EDIT: Actually I should say original <b>copy.</b>

http://news.ibn.net/newsframe.asp?url=http...ticle_88951.asp


posted July 11, 2006


FBI officials said they are looking into an online video showing two men shooting a Quran and then tossing the Muslim holy book down outside a mosque in Chattanooga.


The video was posted June 17 on MySpace.com and is titled "kill the koran."


One scene shows the two men taking turns shooting the Quran with a military rifle and then tossing it onto the sidewalk outside the Islamic Center at 1410 Cemetery Ave.


The location is just off Central Avenue near the National Cemetery.


The Council on American-Islamic Relations of Washington, D.C., asked federal officials to investigate.

I've been here for a few months. I've learned a lot of Islam outside of what the media portrays. I wanted to kind of give a summary of what I've learned here. Please correct me where I am wrong if I am wrong and elaborate on any areas which need elaboration.


Theology-


1) Allah - Allah is the one God. Creator of everything. He is one in nature. He has sent many prophets to people on earth to reveal his will. Some prophets are known to us and some are not known.


2) Allah has sent in the past prophets to every group of peoples on earth. So even the eskimos have had a prophet from Allah.


3) Mohammed was Allah's final prophet.


4) The Quran, although produced by Mohammed, was actually written by Allah.


5) The biggest miracle and proof that Mohammed was a prophet from Allah is the Quran itself.


6) Muslims believe that the Quran is perfect, containing no error either scientific or historical.


7) Jesus - Muslims believe that Jesus was another prophet from Allah and not the Son of God and not God.


8) They believe that Jesus' teachings were twisted and that Jesus had no intention of being worshipped as God.


9) They believe in Jesus' virgin birth.


10) They believe that Jesus did not die on the cross, rather a look alike was killed instead and Jesus was laughing from the crowd watching the crucifiction of this other man.


11) Thus they do not believe in the resurrection of Christ. But they do believe that Jesus ascended into heaven and didn't suffer death on earth...yet. They believe he'll die on earth after his return.


12) They believe that parts of the bible are from Allah (God) and some parts are not from Allah. (I am not sure which parts though)


13) They believe that Mohammed was sinless as Christ was sinless. Meaning that they never committed intentional sin.


14) They believe that salvation comes from obeying the law of Allah as prescribed in the Quran and accpeted Haddiths.


15) The put their hope in salvation in the hands of Allah which they say is most mercifull.


16) They believe that Muslims who convert to Christianity or any other religion ought to be put to death.


Social -


1) Muslim men can have up to four wives. Mohammed had more than that but had special permission from Allah.


2) Muslims should dress modestly. Men with loose clothing which doesn't reveal body shape and women should cover their heads.


3) Muslims abstain from certain foods...such as wine and other drinks.


Other-


1) Haram is sin.


2) Fatwa is an opinion given by Muslim scholars. Fatwa's do not have to be followed. (as a side question, some Fatwa's are enforced by governments and punishable by death are they not? e.g. Men having beards in the Taliban regime?)


3) Haddiths are second only to the Quran in authority.


4) Haddiths were written by the people who lived in contact with Mohammed.


5) Mohammed died a physical death.


6) Jesus will come back some day. (what will he do when he returns?)

سلام



انا متعلم اللغه العربيه. انا تعلم اللغه العربيه هذه الايام. اريد ان تحسن والمفردات العربيه :rolleyes:

Is a man changing a baby's diaper harem? If so, then I will officially adopt that particular belief.


:blink:

Bismillah


Anas b. Malik reported that Abu Bakr Siddiq reported him thus: I saw the feet of the polytheists very close to us as we were in the cave. I said: Allah's Messenger, if one amongst them were to see at his feet he would have surely seen us. Thereupon he said: Abu Bakr, what can befall twain who have Allah as the third One with them. (Sahih Muslim)

Bismillah:


Muslims believe that <b>Prophet Muhammad is not the author of the Quran</b>. God is the author. The following points bear the fact:


1. The Quran itself, at a number of places and in different ways,<b> says it is from God</b>. One of the claim runs thus: "This is indeed a Quran most honourable, a Book well-guarded...a Revelation from the Lord of the Worlds."
(56:77-80)


2. The Prophet <b>did not claim credit for the Quran</b>. Furthermore, the Quran claims: "This Quran is not such as can be produced by anyone other than God."
(10:37)


3. The Prophet was <b>illiterate</b>. <b>He was not a learned man or a philosopher</b>.


4. The Quran took <b>23 years to complete</b>. Had the verses of the Quran <b>(6,666 altogether)</b> been written by the Prophet, he would have needed editing, updating, etc. He did not have spell-check, thesaurus, etc. <b>Yet all the information in the Quran is consistent and without discrepancies</b>. The verses were taken down as dictate by the Prophet only once and no redrafting, editing or updating took place after that.


5. If the Prophet had written the Quran,<b> he would not have made the challenges that are in the Quran</b>, <b>for fear that the learned Arabs and eminent poets of his time would have taken up his challenges and shamed him</b>. "And if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed (from time to time) to Our servant (Muhammad), then produce a chapter like thereunto..."
(2:23)


6. If the Prophet had written such an inimitable Book of Information and Wisdom without resorting to consultation with prominent scholars and the best books from the best libraries in the world?! If he did this, it would surely have been known, <b>since every move he made was known to people. The Prophet was a historical figure, not a mythological figure. </b>


7. The Prophet was <b>the busiest most active person in history</b>. So how could he have found the time to write <b>(even if he were educated)</b> <b>such a comprehensive and extensive Book of Guidance which would have needed years of seclusion and concentration to complete? </b>


8. In Chapter <b>111</b>, it is mentioned that <b>Abu Lahab</b>, one of the Prophet's uncles who was <b>always against Islam</b>, <b>would never accept Islam</b>. This Revelation came some <b>ten years before the death of Abu Lahab</b>. <b>How could the Prophet have dared to write this chapter because all he (Abu Lahab) needed to do to prove that Quran was not the words of God, was to accept Islam dishonestly?
</b>


9. The Prophet was mentioned <b>by name in the Quran only 5 times whereas Jesus Christ's name was (honourably) mentioned 25 times</b>. <b>Could the Prophet go to such an extent of honouring someone more than himself if he had written the Quran? </b>



10. There is a chapter in the Quran entitled and dedicated to <b>"Mary", the mother of Jesus Christ</b>, while <b>there is no chapter called, or dedicated to, the prophet's own mother, "Amina", or daughter, "Fatima", nor were their names mentioned in the Quran</b>. <b>Could this have happened if the Prophet was the Author of the Quran? </b>



11. Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, is glorified in the Quran as <b>"the choses lady above the women of all nations". </b> <b>Why would the Prophet glorify a woman he had never seen and one from another race, saying that she was chosen (by God) above all women, unless the formation of the verses had nothing to do with the Prophet's own authorship but that he only repeated what was inspired to him by God? </b>



12. In the Quran, God is called "Allah" and (in arabic) he is also referred to by his attributes, like the Cherisher, the Merciful, the Almighty. <b>There are 99 such attributes but none of these is "Abba" (father) by which the Arab Christians of the Prophet's time (and even today) refer to God</b>. <b>If the Prophet was the writer of the Quran, he would surely have used "Abba" as one of the names for God because of its familiarity and also because it was easier to say "Abba" than many of the attributes. </b>



i hope this would be useful for those who reflect. Ameen.


Salam


Wael.