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I dont know if this topic is suited for this thread but I have a question..
After reading the Quraan with verses like suratul hadeed aayah #4 and after reading books like "Al-'Aqidah Al Wasitiyah"by sheikh ul islam I fully accept the fact that allah is above all creation...
however in sahih bukhari and in sheikh's book i found this hadith that had me wondering....
my dear muslim brothers and sisters i ask this question not because i want to cause fitna.. but because it has been bothering me for the past week or soo...
here is the hadith as reported in bukhari and muslim:
Quote:When any one of you stands up for prayer, you must not spit in front of you nor to your right <b>because Allah is in front of you</b> ;But you may spit to your left or under your foot
what does it mean that allah is in front of you... i thought he was above his creation...
i read that sheikh ul islam also held this view...
i am a bit confused...
and let me reiterate... this post is not a intended to cause fitna or any controvesy of the sort... i am just confused and i do not want to be of those who ask questions of controversial types... it's just that i am a bit confused... if anyone desires to post a reply that is controversial.. please dont it will just go ignored..
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as salam alykom akhi
may be it is a late reply but better than nothing
I know the quote u made that Allah is above His creation is based on a hadeeth when a young girl embraced Islam and came to see the Messenger of Allah, he asked her where is Allah, she said above, so he said correct. What he was referring to is that he is not one of the idols.
However, the meaning of Allah is in front of u is something like that Allah descends in the last third of the night to the lowest sky and ask His servants is there anyone who wants to repent so I accept and so forth. However, as for spitting on the left hand side, it is according to the hadeeth which means if u r troubled during Salah by Shaytan to spit on your left hand. The same thing when u wake up after a night mare.
In my very humble opinion, and I am not near a scholar but what I understand is that when we say Allah u Akbar in initiation of prayer we become in front of Allah, talking to Allah, this is what i understand brother wallah u a`alam
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as salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah
well sister muslimah... i did some looking around and what i found is that imam ibn hajar said in faht ul bari that this thing of allah being infront of you cannot be taken literally...
i read it a long time ago but i cannot remember all the the rest
sorry...
maybe you can check it up again....
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Brother naseeha
Are you sure that hadith is in Bukhari and Muslim?
I searched for it and found it in Tirmithi and nisa'i and other books of hadith but not in Sahihayn (bukhari and Muslim), and in those books it didn't mention Allah being in front of us.
Please let me know in which book you found it and the number of the hadith, and if you can give me the chapter it will be much easier.
your sister in islam
Amatullah
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As for proof that Allah is above us and on his throne and what salaf said about the issue here is an article about that :
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Understanding verse 20.5
<b>Ar-RaHmaanu `alaa-l-`arshi istawaa (Qur'aan, 20:5)</b>
"Why this Subject: Whoever believes that Allaah is everywhere [and not above His Arsh, except by His knowledge] is a disbeliever (Kafir) - "
<b>Imaam Bukhaaree</b>
Explanation of the Qur'aanic verse:
From Tafseer Ibn Katheer:
There are numerous ways of interpreting this aayah. This is not the place to mention them all. However, while explaning this aayah, we follow the way of As-Salaf (our righteous ancestors), like Maalik, Awzaa'i, Ath-Thawri, Al-Layth ibn Sa'ad, Ash-Shaafi'ee, Ahmad, Ishaq bin Raahawaih and other imaams of Muslims of old and new. Their way is to affirm it as it is without interpretation, assimilation (to attributes of the creation), or distortion. The claim that the settling (Al-Istiwaa') is in resemblance to that of the creation, is rejected concerning Allah.
Nothing is like unto Allah. Allah said (what translated means):
<b><i>There is nothing like unto Him, and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer. </i></b>[42:11]
We confirm what the Imaams, like al-Bukhaari's teacher, Na'im ibn Hammad, said. He said: 'Whoever assimilates Allah with His creation has committed Kufr (disbelief). Whoever denies Allah's description of Himself has committed Kufr. Assimilation to (the creation) cannot be understood from the description of Allah by Allah, or His Messanger (salaallaahu `alayhi wa sallam). Whoever confirms the Attributes, mentioned in the clear aayaat (verses of the Qur'aan) and authentic hadeeths, believing that these Attributes are in a manner befitting to Allah's Majesty, and denying all ill descriptions of Allah; he has followed the way of guidance.'
<b>Statements of some of our scholars and predecessors: </b>
Ibn Khuzaymah said: "Whoever does not affirm that Allah is above His heavens, upon His Throne and that He is distinct from His creation; must be forced to repent. If he does not repent, then he must be beheaded and then thrown in a garbage dump, so that Ahlul-Qiblah (Muslim), and Ahluth-Thimmah (Christians and Jews living among Muslims) would not suffer from his stinking smell."
(Al-Haakim in Al-Ma`rifah)
* * *
Ibn Wahb said that a man came to Imaam Maalik and said: <b> "O Abu `Abdillah, The Ever-Merciful Istawaa upon the Throne; how did He Istawaa?" </b>
Maalik looked down and (started to sweat) (out of anger). Then he raised his head and said: "Ar-Rahmaan (The Ever-Merciful) Istawaa as He described Himself. How, is not valid here. How, is irrelevant about Him. You are an innovator, take him out."
[Ath-Thahabee in Al-`Uluw]
* * *
Ibn Abdul Quddus says "All of Allah's creatures are to believe in
all His Names and Attributes without ANY description, comparison,
nullification, or distortion. Unfortunately, there are many Muslims who commit one or the other; or any combination; or all of the above crimes against Allah. If anyone continues these crimes after it has been clearly and politely explained to them and they have not ceased doing it, they have entered KUFR (capitals used in the text). Among the several attributes that people play with are Allah's Face, His Laughter, His Amazement, His Descending and His Transcendency."
* * *
Mutee al-Balakhee asked Abu Haneefa his opinion of a person who says he does not know whether his Lord is in the heavens or on the earth. Abu Haneefa replied, 'He has disbelieved, because Allah says 'The Most Merciful is above the Throne (20:5)', and his Throne is above His seven heavens'.
He (al-Balakhee) then said, "What if he said that He is above the Throne, but he does not know whether the Throne is in the heavens or on the earth?
He (Abu Haneefa) replied, "He has disbelieved because he has denied that He (Allah) is above the heavens and whoever denies that He is above the Heavens has disbelieved.
* * *
P.S. Words that our scholars used are very severe - in accordance with the importance of having the right `aqeedah, gaining authentic knowledge, not saying about Allaah that which we do not know and not following our guesses when it comes to tauheed. This is why some of our greatest `ulamaa have condemned Ibn `Arabi and some others to kufr (even). While some still call him ash shaikh al akbar. May Allaah make us fear him as He should be feared. Aameen.
Taken from:
http://www.uh.edu/campus/msa
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We have to believe that Allah Is 3ala Kulle Shein Qadeer
Now if we look at the sun we can say sometime its in front of us and at the same time its in the sky, the sun is created by the Almighty, so what do think of the Creator Almighty. He is capable of everything.
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Bismillah
As salam alaikum
We must also remember that Allah tells us that He Knows of the Ghaib (unseen) what we do not know. There are so many things about creation that we will never understand and we are made to not understand. What we do know is that Allah is Al-Haqq and what He Says is Truth. We just do not have the metal capabilities of understanding it.
Shaytan tries to trick me with things like this that I do not understand. I must always remember to go back to what I know to be true that Allah Tells me and makes sense. We are told to not contemplate the essense of Allah but rather His Attributes. I believe that this is why He Revealed these Names to us... so that we may grasp a fuller understanding of our Rabb without having to confuse our simple minds about His Nature.
Insha'Allah this helps. May Allah Reward all of those who have contributed. Astaghfirullah if I have stated what I should not. Please correct me if I have. Jazak Allah.
As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu
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Quote:<i>Originally posted by Amatullah </i><b></b>
Ibn Wahb said that a man came to Imaam Maalik and said: \"O Abu `Abdillah, The Ever-Merciful Istawaa upon the Throne; how did He Istawaa?\"
Maalik looked down and (started to sweat) (out of anger). Then he raised his head and said: \"Ar-Rahmaan (The Ever-Merciful) Istawaa as He described Himself. How, is not valid here. How, is irrelevant about Him. You are an innovator, take him out.\"
[Ath-Thahabee in Al-`Uluw]
* * *
Yes amatullah... I heard of this... this is why i was VERY skeptical about starting this thread... I am afraid that it would cause fitna... May allah prevent this... ameen...
Well i read the hadith in "aqidatul wasatiyah" by imam ibn Taymiyyah.... i looked it up in bukhari and found it there...
Honestly i cant remember the EXACT reference sorry:o
I wish i could help you better...
I'll tell you what.. if i find it i will post it here, if you find it then post it ok... the exact hadith no. Meanwhile you can post the reference in Tirmidhee that you found...
Jazakumullahil khair for the help of all of you...
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(Assalam)
Sahih El-Bukhari:
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 399.
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Narated By Anas bin Malik : The Prophet saw some sputum in the direction of the Qibla (on the wall of the mosque) and he disliked that and the sign of disgust was apparent from his face. So he got up and scraped it off with his hand and said, "Whenever anyone of you stands for the prayer, he is speaking in private to his Lord or his Lord is between him and his Qibla. So, none of you should spit in the direction of the Qibla but one can spit to the left or under his foot." The Prophet then took the corner of his sheet and spat in it and folded it and said, "Or you can do like this."
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 400.
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Narated By 'Abdullah bin 'Umar : Allah's Apostle saw sputum on the wall of the mosque in the direction of the Qibla and scraped it off. He faced the people and said, "Whenever any one of you is praying, he should not spit in front of him because in the prayer Allah is in front of him."
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 401.
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Narated By 'Aisha : (The mother of faithful believers) Allah's Apostle saw some nasal secretions, expectoration or sputum on the wall of the mosque in the direction of the Qibla and scraped it off.
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 402.
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Narated By Abd Huraira and Abu Said : Allah's Apostle saw some expectoration on the wall of the mosque; he took gravel and scraped it off and said, "If anyone of you wanted to spit he should neither spit in front of him nor on his right but he could spit either on his left or under his left foot."
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 403.
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Narated By Abd Huraira and Abu Sa'id : Allah's Apostle saw some expectoration on the wall of the mosque; he took gravel and scraped it off and said, "If anyone of you wanted to spit, he should neither spit in front of him nor on his right but could spit either on his left or under his left foot."
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 404.
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Narated By Anas : The Prophet said, "None of you should spit in front or on his right but he could spit either on his left or under his foot."
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 405.
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Narated By Anas bin Malik : The Prophet said, "A faithful believer while in prayer is speaking in private to his Lord, so he should neither spit in front of him nor to his right side but he could spit either on his left or under his foot."
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 406.
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Narated By Abu Said : The Prophet saw sputum on (the wall of) the mosque in the direction of the Qibla and scraped it off with gravel. Then he forbade Spitting in front or on the right, but allowed it on one's left or under one's left foot.
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 407.
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Narated By Anas bin Malik : The Prophet said, "Spitting in the mosque is a sin and its expiation is to bury it."
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 408.
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Narated By Abu Huraira : Prophet said, "If anyone of you stands for prayer, he should not spit in front of him because in prayer he is speaking in private to Allah and he should not spit on his right as there is an angel, but he can spit either on his left or under his left foot and bury it (i.e. expectoration)."
Volumn 001, Book 008, Hadith Number 409.
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Narated By Anas : The Prophet saw expectoration (on the wall of the mosque) in the direction of the Qibla and scraped it off with his hand. It seemed that he disliked it and the sign of disgust was apparent from his face. He said, "If anyone of you stands for the prayer, he is speaking in private to his Lord, (or) his Lord is between him and his Qibla, therefore he should not spit towards his Qibla, but he could spit either on his left or under his foot." Then he took the corner of his sheet and spat in it, folded it and said, "Or do like this."
The Ahadith are self-explanatory.
As for how Allah (SWT) is infront of us, its like when the Porphet (SAAWS) and Abu-Bakr were in the cave and Abu-Bakr told the Prophet (SAAWS) that if any of the kufar would look at his feet, he would see us, the Prophet (SAAWS) replied by saying:"What do you think happening to two whom Allah is their third". Compare it to your question and you will understand.
That is what Aqeedah means, Abu-Bakr's aqeedah was so strong that he never questioned it when the Prophet (SAAWS) told him that, but who are we when it comes to Abu-Bakr. I understand that you were just confused, but I also know that most of us are not what ALLAH (SWT) wants us to be (so don't be offended by my words), Allahuma make our Aqeedah as strong as it was for Abu-Bakr, (ameen).
سورة التوبه
إِلَّا تَنْصُرُوهُ فَقَدْ نَصَرَهُ اللَّهُ إِذْ أَخْرَجَهُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا ثَانِيَ اثْنَيْنِ إِذْ هُمَا فِي الْغَارِ إِذْ يَقُولُ لِصَاحِبِهِ لَا تَحْزَنْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَنَا فَأَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ سَكِينَتَهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَيَّدَهُ بِجُنُودٍ لَمْ تَرَوْهَا وَجَعَلَ كَلِمَةَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا السُّفْلَى وَكَلِمَةُ اللَّهِ هِيَ الْعُلْيَا وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ
يقول تعالى " إلا تنصروه " أي تنصروا رسوله فإن الله ناصره ومؤيده وكافيه وحافظه كما تولى نصره " إذ أخرجه الذين كفروا ثاني اثنين " أي عام الهجرة لما هم المشركون بقتله أو حبسه أو نفيه فخرج منهم هاربا صحبه صديقه وصاحبه أبو بكر بن أبي قحافة فلجأ إلى غار ثور ثلاثة أيام ليرجع الطلب الذين خرجوا في آثارهم ثم يسيروا نحو المدينة فجعل أبو بكر رضي الله عنه يجزع أن يطلع عليهم فيخلص إلى الرسول عليه الصلاة والسلام منهم أذى فجعل النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم يسكنه ويثبته ويقول " يا أبا بكر ما ظنك باثنين الله ثالثهما " كما قال الإمام أحمد حدثنا عفان حدثنا همام أنبأنا ثابت عن أنس أن أبا بكر حدثه قال : قلت للنبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ونحن في الغار لو أن أحدهم نظر إلى قدميه لأبصرنا تحت قدميه قال : فقال " يا أبا بكر ما ظنك باثنين الله ثالثهما " أخرجاه في الصحيحين ولهذا قال تعالى " فأنزل الله سكينته عليه " أي تأييده ونصره عليه أي على الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم في أشهر القولين وقيل على أبي بكر وروي عن ابن عباس وغيره قالوا : لأن الرسول صلى الله عليه وسلم لم تزل معه سكينة وهذا لا ينافي تجدد سكينة خاصة بتلك الحال ولهذا قال " وأيده بجنود لم تروها " أي الملائكة " وجعل كلمة الذين كفروا السفلى وكلمة الله هي العليا " قال ابن عباس : يعني بكلمة الذين كفروا الشرك وكلمة الله هي لا إله إلا الله . وفي الصحيحين عن أبي موسى الأشعري رضي الله عنه قال : سئل رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عن الرجل يقاتل شجاعة ويقاتل حمية ويقاتل رياء أي ذلك في سبيل الله ؟ فقال " من قاتل لتكون كلمة الله هي العليا فهو في سبيل الله " وقوله " والله عزيز " أي في انتقامه وانتصاره منيع الجناب لا يضام من لاذ ببابه واحتمى بالتمسك بخطابه " حكيم " في أقواله وأفعاله .
At-Taubah
[40] If ye help not (your Leader), (it is no matter): for Allah did indeed help him, when the Unbelievers drove him out: he had no more than one companion: they two were in the Cave, and he said to his companion, "Have no fear for Allah is with us": then Allah sent down His peace upon him, and strengthened him with forces which ye saw not, and humbled to the depths the word of the Unbelievers. But the word of Allah is exalted to the heights: for Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
P.S. If you can read Arabic but can't read the part in Arabic included in this post, then right click and go to encoding and choose Arabic (windows) and the page should refresh and you will be able to read the Arabic part.
(Assalam)
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