Blame It On Me Dude!

[Rehmat]

"When God asked Adam why did he eats from the forbidden tree, he answered, according to the O.T. "And the man said, the WOMAN whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the Lord God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, the serpent beguiled me, and I did eat." Genesis 3:12-13


"And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise the head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. Unto the woman he (God) said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." Genesis 3 : 15-16


Do you see here, Adam who committed the sin of eating from the forbidden tree blame it on woman (Eve)? And since then, men of all generations have been blaming Women for their sins. You see that God in the Bible is blaming Eve and punishing her and all the women to come for the sin she did.


However, If we women read the same story in the Qur’an, (2:31-36), (7:19-25),(20:115-123) we will find that Allah says in the Qur’an :


1. Never blamed Eve for the sin that Adam committed . Allah spoke about both Adam and Eve being duped by Satan, and never singled Eve out.


2. Adam is held responsible for the sin he committed, he cannot blame it on Eve, since he is as a responsible human being as she.


3. Both Adam and Eve were punished for their sin by being ousted from Paradise.


4. Eve did not receive any harsher admonition than Adam and was not threatened by misery for herself and all her female offsprings as the Bible depicts.

[ronniv93]

You know, this is getting tiresome.


9 times out of 10, when someone who is a non-Christian around here tries to "Bible-bash", they get it all wrong and twisted. I'm not saying that the only people qualified to talk about the Bible are Christians themselves, but when this kind of silly stuff keeps getting posted and it's WRONG, it tends to make me feel that non-Christians should just keep their mouths shut about the Bible.


Instead of trying to understand and interpret the Bible, which you have thus far proven to be a failure at, why don't you just stick to talking about Islam and the Quran which I have to assume you know more about?


Because whenever you post things like this, whether you know it or not, you make yourself out to be a liar, which I hope is not your goal or intent.


I've been trying to simply ignore you and your posts because of your hate-filled spirit and manner, but I can't sit idly by when I see clear lies and distortions about my faith. I'm sure you would do the same.

[Rehmat]

You know, this is getting tiresome.
9 times out of 10, when someone who is a non-Christian around here tries to "Bible-bash", they get it all wrong and twisted. I'm not saying that the only people qualified to talk about the Bible are Christians themselves, but when this kind of silly stuff keeps getting posted and it's WRONG, it tends to make me feel that non-Christians should just keep their mouths shut about the Bible.

That's interesting - Last time you told me that Deu. and the other four books of Old Testament are not part of the New Testament


Now, if you pretends to be Christian, then why "the quote" from OT bothers you so much - Or did I quote it wrong? In that case why don't you correct it in staed of crying "wolf, wolf"

[ronniv93]

That's interesting - Last time you told me that Deu. and the other four books of Old Testament are not part of the New Testament 

And they're not. Did you think that you came up with something "clever" here? LOL.

Now, if you pretends to be Christian, then why "the quote" from OT bothers you so much - Or did I quote it wrong? In that case why don't you correct it in staed of crying "wolf, wolf

See, the thing is, only Muslims believe in ignoring or throwing away the former revelations. That's why most Muslims will never read the Bible; they consider it either corrupted at worst, or invalid and superseded at best.


The Christian does not throw all of this away. Everything for us in the OT points to Jesus Christ. Now, not all LAWS are binding upon us but that's because the LAW was given to Jews. But stories of Adam and Eve, for example, are important and applicable for both Jews AND Christians.


This is another example of what I'm talking about. If you don't understand even this, then you really should stop talking about Christianity and/or Judaism. If a person is ignorant in a particular area, they should not attempt to come off as some sort of knowledge-expert.


This is my last post to you on this thread.

[Rehmat]

See, the thing is, only Muslims believe in ignoring or throwing away the former revelations. That's why most Muslims will never read the Bible; they consider it either corrupted at worst, or invalid and superseded at best.
The Christian does not throw all of this away.  Everything for us in the OT points to Jesus Christ.  Now, not all LAWS are binding upon us but that's because the LAW was given to Jews.  But stories of Adam and Eve, for example, are important and applicable for both Jews AND Christians. 


This is another example of what I'm talking about.  If you don't understand even this, then you really should stop talking about Christianity and/or Judaism.  If a person is ignorant in a particular area, they should not attempt to come off as some sort of knowledge-expert.


This is my last post to you on this thread.

Let us leave Christians out for the time being – because they do believe a lot of OT stuff, which most of Jews don’t bother much – they have their own ‘holy book’ known as Talmud, which includes the pedophilic Biblical verses like Numbers 31:17-18 and Numbers 31:35-40, explaining the pedophilia that took place against the 3-year old slave girls under the direct command of Moses God forbid).


While Christians are not obligated to follow the laws of the Talmud in their social lives, but the historical FACTS that exist in the Talmud about the Biblical verses Numbers 31:17-18 and Numbers 31:35-40 below, and how the "Bble followers" during those days were mostly pedophiles who literally forced sex on 3-year old girls after Moses' supposed 'Divine' order is clear indication that the Bible condones pedophilia.


Hey, what is the "rush" - What happened to your "mission" to prove that Holy Qur'an is also corrupted like OT and NT?

[christynicole1974]

If we are going to "qote the bible, lets get the quote right.


Just to clear this up.... Adam, Eve and the serpant were all punished individually for thier sin. The Snake was to crawl on the belly and be hatede and stepped on by women. Eve was to suffer during child birth, and Adam was to work and toil the ground for food. God did punish adab according to the bible he did not single out eve, it was almost like god said "well if she told you to jump of a brige would you do that too?" Adam blamed eve, but God held him accountable:


And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? 12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. 13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat. 14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. 16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

[Rehmat]

If we are going to "qote the bible, lets get the quote right.
Just to clear this up.... Adam, Eve and the serpant were all punished individually for thier sin. The Snake was to crawl on the belly and be hatede and stepped on by women.....

Gee, Yahudi’s knowledge of Genesis Chapters 2 and 3 ‘Iz no goodh’!


Now read with me your holy book woman - Verse 15, Chapter 3, "I will put enmity between you and the woman and between your offspring and hers...."


Clearly the curse directed at the snake is eternal, given this reference to future generations. And it is a curse as verse 14 says,


"Because you did this, more cursed shall you be..."


Now look at the sixteenth verse, the alleged "curse" of the woman. Do you see the word "curse" there anywhere? No, because it is not there. The woman was punished for her acts but not cursed.


On to Adam (Chapter 3, verses 17 -20). The word "cursed" appears in this section, right? Yes, but look at verse 17, "Cursed be the ground because of you." Not "Cursed be you." Big difference!


Adam was going to have to farm (work hard) for a living but absolutely no curse was applied to him directly. It didn't happen. Period.


So we don't have a curse? Wasn't the punishment eternal?


Check again. I've pointed out the reference to future generations in the curse of the snake. There is absolutely no reference to future generations in the punishments of Adam and Eve.


Wasn't this somehow implied, moron

[radiyah]

Salam


ronniv93 I hope u will stop calling Rehmat a liar, instead of calling him that, just ignore or give proof of the so called falsity u think he is speaking off if u think it is false. Now to end this Subject here is the true story of Adam and Eve in The Holy Quran, it is a totaly different from what christians and jews claim.


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


28. How can you disbelieve in Allâh? Seeing that you were dead and He gave you life. Then He will give you death, then again will bring you to life (on the Day of Resurrection) and then unto Him you will return.



29. He it is Who created for you all that is on earth. Then He Istawâ (rose over) towards the heaven and made them seven heavens and He is the All-Knower of everything.


30. And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know."


31. And He taught Adam all the names (of everything) , then He showed them to the angels and said, "Tell Me the names of these if you are truthful."


32. They (angels) said: "Glory be to You, we have no knowledge except what you have taught us. Verily, it is You, the All-Knower, the All-Wise."


33. He said: "O Adam! Inform them of their names," and when he had informed them of their names, He said: "Did I not tell you that I know the Ghaib (unseen) in the heavens and the earth, and I know what you reveal and what you have been concealing?"


34. And (remember) when We said to the angels: "Prostrate yourselves before Adam.". And they prostrated except Iblîs (Satan), he refused and was proud and was one of the disbelievers (disobedient to Allâh).


35. And We said: "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight of things therein as wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zâlimûn (wrong-doers)."


36. Then the Shaitân (Satan) made them slip therefrom (the Paradise), and got them out from that in which they were. We said: "Get you down, all, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment for a time."


37. Then Adam received from his Lord Words . And his Lord pardoned him (accepted his repentance). Verily, He is the One Who forgives (accepts repentance), the Most Merciful.


38. We said: "Get down all of you from this place (the Paradise), then whenever there comes to you Guidance from Me, and whoever follows My Guidance, there shall be no fear on them, nor shall they grieve.


39. But those who disbelieve and belie Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) such are the dwellers of the Fire, they shall abide therein forever. 2, Surat Al-Baqara


And there was no serpent, no definition of Eve to blame, and Eve was not punished alone for what she did, they both did. in Islam, a man should help his wife in home chores, he is even ordered to serve her if she is tired or sick, a woman in Islam is treated so gently and affectionatley, a woman in Islam inherits, a woman in Islam is payed Dowery and not the other way round, a woman in Islam is respected as a mother wife and sister, and not as mentioned in the Bible and Torah. this is our Islam This is Our Quran U accept it, u r welcome, u do not accept it, just stop calling people liars ronni. U have been contradicting yourself a lot here on this forum, make up your mind, what is it that u want. U want to learn more about islam, okay we are willing, u want to stay as u r, okay no problem with us, but just make up your mind, and stop that attacking tone . If u think any1 is saying something rude about your relegion, then okay why don't u provide proofs as I said. But the truth is presented here, u accept it as it is presented then okay, if no then u do not go attacking others.


This is the explanation of the above verses in Quran from the translation of Scholar Bin Katheer, This is our relegion and true word of Allah :


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1518


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1561


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1574


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1629


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1635


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1654


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1660


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1669


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1684


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1688


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1692


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1698


This is the true story of Adam and Eve and any1 who says anything different has wronged himself and lied on behalf of Allah. Our book is one Genuine never been changed, it is the only book defying humans to give just one verse the same like it, One copy Ronni One, since 1425 years ago, accept or leave. And Prophet Muhammad has been sent to all nations and not only arabs as some claim.


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem :


106. Verily, in this (the Qur'ân) there is a plain Message for people who worship Allâh (i.e. the true, real believers of Islâmic Monotheism who act practically on the Qur'ân and the Sunnah legal ways of the Prophet ).



107. And We have sent you (O Muhammad ) not but as a mercy for the 'Alamîn (mankind, jinns and all that exists).


108. Say (O Muhammad ): "It is revealed to me that your Ilâh (God) is only one Ilâh (God - Allâh). Will you then submit to His Will (become Muslims and stop worshipping others besides Allâh)?" 21, Surat Al-Anbiyaa


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem :


26. Say: "Our Lord will assemble us all together (on the Day of Resurrection), then He will judge between us with truth. And He is the (Most Trustworthy) All­Knowing Judge."



27. Say (O Muhammad to these polytheists and pagans): "Show me those whom you have joined to Him as partners. Nay (there are not at all any partners with Him)! But He is Allâh (Alone), the All­Mighty, the All­Wise."


28. And We have not sent you (O Muhammad ) except as a giver of glad tidings and a warner to all mankind, but most of men know not.


29. And they say: "When is this promise (i.e. the Day of Resurrection will be fulfilled) if you are truthful?"


30. Say (O Muhammad ): "The appointment to you is for a Day, which you cannot put back for an hour (or a moment) nor put forward." 34 Surat Saba'


This is the true relegion no Creator but Allah, One God no companion no woman, no nothing Just One Creator, and if u think that God will come down and leave this whole universe for just one second just to sacrifice a son in order that humans would sin as they wish and God will forgive them, then the whole universe will collapse if Its creator left it for one second, then forgive me u r thinking in a most twisted way or u r blinded or u r just hiding in the sand like an ostrish.


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


69. Surely, those who believe (in the Oneness of Allâh, in His Messenger Muhammad and all that was revealed to him from Allâh), those who are the Jews and the Sabians and the Christians, - whosoever believed in Allâh and the Last Day, and worked righteousness, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.



70. Verily, We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them Messengers. Whenever there came to them a Messenger with what they themselves desired not - a group of them they called liars, and others among them they killed.


71. They thought there will be no Fitnah (trial or punishment), so they became blind and deaf; after that Allâh turned to them (with Forgiveness); yet again many of them became blind and deaf. And Allâh is the All­Seer of what they do.


72. Surely, they have disbelieved who say: "Allâh is the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary)." But the Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord." Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode . And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong­doers) there are no helpers.


73. Surely, <b>disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)."</b> But there is no ilâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.


74. Will they not repent to Allâh and ask His Forgiveness? For Allâh is Oft­Forgiving, Most Merciful.


75.<b> The Messiah ['Iesa (Jesus)], son of Maryam (Mary), was no more than a Messenger;</b> many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother [Maryam (Mary)] was a Siddiqah [i.e. she believed in the words of Allâh and His Books (see Verse 66:12)]. They both used to eat food (as any other human being, while Allâh does not eat). Look how We make the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) clear to them, yet look how they are deluded away (from the truth).


76. Say (O Muhammad to mankind):<b> "How do you worship besides Allâh something which has no power either to harm or to benefit you?</b> But it is Allâh Who is the All­Hearer, All­Knower."


77. Say (O Muhammad ): <b>"O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Exceed not the limits in your religion (by believing in something) other than the truth,</b> and do not follow the vain desires of people who went astray in times gone by, and who misled many, and strayed (themselves) from the Right Path."


5, Surat Al-Maidah


This is The truth, This is what WE Muslims Worship One GOD and NOT 3, This is our Quran and Our Book. Try and defy it ronni, try to prove there is one word that is wrong in it, u tried before and we gave u enough proof I think in other posts. So what will it be, what u will chose attack or learn. No offense to any1, but an invitation to true Islam.


Peace


May Allah accept from me, If I am correct by The Aid of Allah, if I am wrong from my ignorance mistake and satan.


Brother Rehmat, please try to focus on Quran verses as proof rather than the Bible or Torah.


Wasalam

[ronniv93]

Hello radiyah,

ronniv93 I hope u will stop calling Rehmat a liar, instead of calling him that, just ignore or give proof of the so called falsity u think he is speaking off if u think it is false.

As far as I can tell, that is what she is, though. She has repeatedly leveled claims against me and my character which I have corrected over and over again. Thus, for her to keep saying them with no proof means what? It's a lie.


When it comes to matters of faith and scripture, if I say anything about her posts, I <b>do</b> point out what is wrong and provide evidence about WHY it's wrong. I have begun to ignore many of her posts, though, because I see it is a waste of time. She always ends up going down some Jew-hating-conspiracy stuff that makes no sense and has no relevance to the topics at hand.

Now to end this Subject here is the true story of Adam and Eve in The Holy Quran, it is a totaly different from what christians and jews claim.

What makes the Quranic version true and the Biblical one false?


Everyone seems to be big on "proofs" around here, so why should a person believe one of these stories over another?


And really, I don't see the big difference. They both ate from the tree that was forbidden and they both suffered consequences as a result. Where is the earth-shaking difference in terms of their sin and disobedience?

And there was no serpent,

The serpent was merely something that Satan worked through. So, there's not necessarily a big difference.

no definition of Eve to blame,

Well, the devil is to blame. If he hadn't come to tempt Eve, then she probably would have never touched it. But he placed thoughts and doubts in her mind. So, she was deceived by the devil.

and Eve was not punished alone for what she did, they both did.

Neither does the Bibe punish Eve alone. Everyone was punished: The serpent, Adam and Eve. It is a HUGE Muslim misconception that only Eve was punished. I don't know why this misunderstanding exists when one can easily read the story for themselves and see that this statement is false.

in Islam, a man should help his wife in home chores, he is even ordered to serve her if she is tired or sick, a woman in Islam is treated so gently and affectionatley, a woman in Islam inherits, a woman in Islam is payed Dowery and not the other way round, a woman in Islam is respected as a mother wife and sister, and not as mentioned in the Bible and Torah.

Again, I don't understand why this misconception exists that the Bible is so horrible towards women. Why aren passages like Proverbs 31 ignored that say a virtuous woman is more valuable than rubies? Why aren't passages that tell the husband to love his wife as Christ loved the church and GAVE HIMSELF for it ever quoted? Why aren't passages about all the women that Jesus commended for their faith ever quoted? Where does this idea come from that a woman in the Bible is not respected?


I swear, I just don't get it.


Are Muslim scholars or teachers preaching this kind of stuff? Where is it coming from?

this is our Islam This is Our Quran U accept it, u r welcome, u do not accept it, just stop calling people liars ronni.

I call it as I see it, radiyah. If someone keeps telling things that are untrue about me, I don't know what else that is except a lie.


And whether I accept the Quran or not is one thing. Maybe I will one day and maybe I won't. Right now, I see all these inaccuracies coming from this person about my faith and I correct it.

U have been contradicting yourself a lot here on this forum, make up your mind, what is it that u want.

Only, apparently, in the minds of Muslims is it contradictory.


Many things about Islam are contradictory IN MY OPINION. That's why we are different faiths right now. Because we DON'T see eye-to-eye.

U want to learn more about islam, okay we are willing,

And I am learning about Islam, although not from Rehmat. To me, she seems to spend more time quoting the Bible than the Quran or Hadith. But learning about Islam is one thing; someone spreading falsehoods about someone else's faith is another. Why the need to keep telling falsehoods about another's faith? Islam should be able to stand on it's own without having to put others down.

If u think any1 is saying something rude about your relegion, then okay why don't u provide proofs as I said.

And I do. But you know what? It seems to do nothing but 1) waste my time because 2) nobody seems to pay any attention.


Like that one thread started by someone about how Paul supposedly corrupted the whole Christian faith. I put a lot of time and effort into reading each and every line and correcting everything that was incorrect (<i>which was most of the article</i>) and <b>NO ONE</b> including the original poster acknowledged what I had said. So why should I put forth so much effort when it will be overlooked and ignored? But I still do it anyway, because otherwise people will accuse me of not being able to support what I say.

This is the true story of Adam and Eve and any1 who says anything different has wronged himself and lied on behalf of Allah.

See? You believe that only the Quran's version is the correct one and concluded that anyone who says anything different has lied. How is that different from me saying that someone has lied?

One copy Ronni One, since 1425 years ago, accept or leave.

As you know, I do not accept this. Not even all Muslims say this (<i>and this comes from people who SPECIALIZE in studying the Quran and it's history</i>). And frankly, <b>even if</b> this were true, which it is not, it does not prove that the Quran is divine.

And Prophet Muhammad has been sent to all nations and not only arabs as some claim.

And neither was Jesus just for one nation only, as some claim.

and if u think that God will come down and leave this whole universe for just one second just to sacrifice a son in order that humans would sin as they wish and God will forgive them, then the whole universe will collapse

But who is saying this? Not me. Not any REAL Christian. REAL Christians seek to be just that - Christ-like. And Christ NEVER sinned. The only person in history to never fall to sin. No Christian makes up excuses to sin. We are looking for ways OUT OF sin. No true Christian who understands his or her faith says that because Jesus died for us, then we can sin all we want to. That is ridiculous to my mind and my spirit.

if Its creator left it for one second, then forgive me u r thinking in a most twisted way or u r blinded or u r just hiding in the sand like an ostrish.

Who said anything about God leaving the world???

Try and defy it ronni, try to prove there is one word that is wrong in it

Okay. Prove to me that Jews called Ezra "the son of God" as the Quran says. I've never seen ANY solid proof of this.

u tried before and we gave u enough proof I think in other posts.

I highly doubt that, because I didn't come to this forum with the goal of "proving the Quran wrong". I asked questions about it and refused to accept that there is only 1 Arabic copy of it, but I never had the intention of "proving it wrong". So, you can't say that anyone gave me enough proof against something I didn't even try to do.

[shameem]

there was a particular tribe or group of jews back in the days that called ezra the son of god. of course not all jews believed this because it goes against judaism. when they looked back into their history they found that a particular sect of judaism did believe in a son of god. as far as son of god ideas go, there were many ideas of this in roman and greek mythology. for e.g. troy being the son zues . i believe christianity got this son /god ideas from the roman pagans. christianity is heavely influenced by the roman pagans.