Do religion and politics belong together?

[Andysand]

I think they DO NOT belong together. For thousands of years, religion has bred hatred and wars. Mulims against jews, christians against non christians and of course muslims against non muslim.


It is illogical to have negative feelings against somebody becuase they do not believe what you do. MORAL VALUES are what counts and from morals we construct laws. Theft, murder etc etc are all immoral acts and that is why they are illegal. Not becuase of any link to a particular religion.


Tribe mentality is one of the greatest distasters to befall mankind. They form over religions, over race and even football teams. Witness the thugs that used to be so much in eveidence at English football games.


What is needed in this troubled world is tolerance. And that means muslims tolerating other faiths as well as the other way round. Don't invent terms and names for 'non-believers' simply because they have a different religeon, instead save the names for evil individuals. One cannot simply hate Jews or Arabs or Americans. It makes no sense and is unjust.


Andy

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam Andy


Well Islam is totally different from the Christian church which actually forced its followers to track off. Church as I know was a main reason for followers to call for, look for, seek a separation between religion and life.


Whereas Islam is a way of life, thus we can never separate the teachings of Islam clearly contained in Quran and hadeeth from our day to day life.


Matter of fact if u ask me personally what is the reason behind the massive recession in the Muslim world I would safely say so will any other thinking Muslim. It is the lack of applying Islam.

[Andysand]

Surely recessions are about economic policy, monetary decisions, strength of unions, world trading restrictions, interest rates etc?


Also your atatement:


"the reason behind the massive recession in the Muslim world I would safely say so will any other thinking Muslim. It is the lack of applying Islam"


cannot be true or non muslim countries would be in permanent recession!


This I think is a danger of trying to explain things in terms of a particular faith.


Some Mulism countries have tried or are trying to have a constitution that is based on the Koran yet have a democratically elected government. The government can make laws but only accordance with the constitution. If religion and politics MUST be mixed, then this would seem a good way forward to me providing the constitution is sound.


I don't know the true reason why there is massive poverty in the Muslim world but I would make some guesses.


1) Corrupt regimes and officials leading to bribery and extortion. My wife is Russian and I have seen for myself the damage that this does to an economy. The oil states particularly should be ashamed of themselves. With that much oil, there should be plenty of wealth to go around! The worlds casinos should not be full of Saudi 'princes' frittering away millions of dollars.


2) Wars. The middle east seems to be in a constant state of war. Not just with the west but with itself. Witness the chaos now in Iraq between the different tribes. They were kept in check by a brutal dictator until the Iraq war but now are fighting eachother for supremacy when they should be standing together to work out ways to make the country a civilised and wealthy oil nation.


Democracy has a way of not only enriching people but contorlling power hungry regimes. If they can be simply voted out, they behave a lot better!


This is ALL such a big subject that so I will leave it there or my posts will be too long and boring to read!


One thing I would like to add though is this. It is a real pleasure for me to be able to discuss these things here and to have an opportunty to learn about what you believe and why. I don't know even one Muslim in my personal life! I know of some of course, but none that I could walk up to and have this discussion! Though England is supposed to be an integrated country, the reality is that we seperate ourselves according to our culture. I know of no way to change this.


Andy

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


salam Andy


First off let me express back that i m as glad as u r for u being able to discuss and learn about islam.


Let me explain more about me using the word recession. I never used it in an economic sense. I know of course that it is mainly used in an economic sense. however what I meant was the backward position most if not all Muslim countries are suffering currently.


And I stress it is because of lacking to apply Islam.


well yes the Western world which is not adopting Islam is vastly progressing. But Allah Shall not punish those who at the first place are not committed to the religion of Allah. But supposedly we are. And when we are and fail to apply this way, fail to treasure it and instead replace it with a mixture of something that is even ambigous just to fit it, imitate and be called democratic or advanced, that is when we suffer.


Me too I dont want to make my posts long, but this is worth talking about, since u r here to learn and it is a chance for u to do so.


Let me give u just one exmple at this post.


when Egyptian Coptic Christians asked for Muslim help (they sent to Khalif Omar Ibn Elkhattab) to intervene to save them againt the catholic oppression at that time who ruled Egypt and were pressuring the copts to follow catholism by force. Omar sent an army to do so, the important point is that Egypt was hard to open ( i mean to invade) they sent for help, he sent them extra army and a message to check which type of Sunnah they are not following (Sunnah is the tradition of the Messenger). They realized that they dont use Siwak (Siwak is a certain kind of trees which we are supposed to use to clean our teeth believe it or not clinically proved to be the best not our core of interest now or else I will go for a book size post [img]style_emoticons/default/smile.gif[/img] ). They started using it and guess what Egyptians thought they are preparing to eat them alive and gates were opened.


Are u getting the point, we left Islam so Allah Is punishing us.


There is another hadeeth (narration of the Messenger) I will dig it out Insh a Allah and post it for u here. Or even the link to it.


Insh a Allah i helped.


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