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The Recent Suicides at Gitmo
#1

Salaam once again to all of you Al-Sunnah board folks. It's true, I have returned after falling off the face of the earth once again.


I was hoping to get some opinions from the Muslims on this board in regards to the recent triple suicide at the U.S. prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Here in the U.S., many news agencies (especially more conservative ones like FOX News) have been proclaiming that the suicides were an "act of war" meant to spur anti-American violence in Mulim nations. More liberal minded people as well as lawyers for the dead are saying that the suicides were caused be severe depression and were a way to lament the treatment of the prisoners to the world.


What do you think about these assertions? Do you think that these men would kill themselves as a tool for war? Were the suicides out of sheer deperations? And ultimatly, when is it ok (if ever) to kill oneself in Islam?


I'll wait until I get some feedback until I give my take on it, because I don't want to cloud the discourse with argument over my opinion, if there is any. Thanks a lot for anything you care to contribute to the discussion.


PII

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#2

We can Speculate, Allah knows best as to their deaths. Intentions and how they died.


Would like to Point to the honourable sources of this information : Jewish run media + Anglo news agencies……


The Cartoons, the Killings fileds of iraq Afghnistan, Gitmo, IRAN..... Etc etc seems someone’s doing A lot to anger Islamist (as we are called) .


As a tool for war would they have killed themselves – The day they were arrested they were a victims of a false war. They were taken as Tools of the US government.


Die of Desperation – because of the filth that “god’s children” are imposing these muslim men to?


When is it ok to Kill oneself? If you wanting the "Suicide is ok under extream conditions" nope - Dont chat bout Palestine that is a different ethos.


<b></b>


Peace in Ireland - :) My street name is LondonDerry.


There are more Road accidents in my country on any given Easter weekned than all the Wars fought in Ireland

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#3

Bismillah


I m here just to welcome PII back. Wow that was really long. :)

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#4

Bismillah


Assalamu alaikum


I also want to join the welcoming group, welcome back Peace!


About the question, I feel it is not for me to speculate about this, already many seems to do that, all the questions starting with 'why' is not within my knowledge to answer.

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#5

Bismillah


Salam again PII


Let me try and take a stab on this.


Well, to judge whether or not a person is accounted as a suicider, is certaily not our business. Only Allah Judges who is a suicider or even a martyr. I mean we can never confirm that one who died during a battle of war confronting with the enemies is a martyr. Same rule applies on this case, we cannt judge them as suicider to start with.


Based on this fact, I think I cannt continue no more. Their judgment is only to Allah, only Allah Knows the circumstances of their death. May Allah Have Mercy on them.

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#6

Bismillah


Where is PII?

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#7

Hello hello. Sorry for taking so long again.


Well, to be honest I wasn't expecting so many "un-guesses," but in retrospect I suppose it makes sense in Islam since God is considered to be the only one capable of judging. My question may have been poorly phrased, but my real interest was in seeing how people responded to the media's take on the situation. The U.S. media, as I said, is spinning the suicides as subversive tactics to exacerbate the "jihad against America." Others claim that it was caused by utter desperation and torture suffered by the Muslim prisoners. What aggrivated me about the entire debate is the two-sidedness of the entire thing (though this is a very common occurance in the America media.) I tend to think that it is impossible to lock people up, interrogate them, torture them, and hold them without charge or counsel for years and expect depression not to take its toll at some point. However, as they say in physics, every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and I believe that the suicides will exacerbate the violence. That is not to say, however, that I blame the men who took their lives for exacerbating war. Unfortunatly, Americans have a huge problem with parellel logic, paradoxes, and anything that does not follow a staight line from point A to point B.


In short, I see the suicides as extremely unfortunate. I see the fighting and death they will spur as extremely unfortunate. But I see them as a natural outcome of gross human violations.


All of this death and mayhem could of course be curbed, slowed down, or even almost stopped if the U.S. would stop terrorizing the would with its military and homicidal perversion of capitalism.


Anyway, that was kind of a long rant, and I'm extremely tired, so I appologize if it makes no sense. I think it's time for a shower and some sleep. Maybe tomorrow I'll make better sense (though I think an abundance of free time is going to be the only thing that can keep me posting regularly here for more than two days a year :D )

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#8

Bismillah


i found this relevant article that supports PII post:


----------------------------------------------------


http://news.ibn.net/newsframe.asp?url=http...icle1117127.ece


Guantanamo Bay suicide prisoners 'showed no sign of being depressed'


By Stevenson Jacobs in Guantanamo Bay


Published: 28 June 2006


Three Guantanamo Bay detainees who hanged themselves in their cells were tested psychologically only days before their suicides and showed no signs of being depressed, a military doctor said yesterday.


The doctor suggested the examinations, performed one to two weeks before the suicides on 10 June, supported assertions by military officials that the prisoners killed themselves as a political act - not because they were despondent about their prolonged detention.


"None had showed any signs of being depressed or having a mental condition," said the doctor, who is the chief medical officer in America's prison camp on Cuba's south-east tip.


He spoke on condition of anonymity.


The three detainees - two Saudis and a Yemeni - were given psychological tests as a formality because they had recently participated in a hunger strike, including one who refused meals for 180 days. The military said they were found hanging in their cells from nooses fashioned from bed sheets.


After the suicides, Admiral Harry Harris, the commander of the detention operation, called the deaths an act of "asymmetrical warfare" against the US military. "If you ask my opinion, I agree with the admiral that this was somewhat of a political statement," the doctor told reporters visiting the US naval base.


He said medical personnel examined the detainees some 10 minutes after they were found and "did everything we could" to revive them. He suggested that American guards might have noticed the detainees sooner had the prison not been following International Red Cross recommendations, including how dark their cells should be at night. "If we did everything the Red Cross wanted, there would be very little that we could do to keep detainees alive short of putting them in a strait-jacket," he said.


"Every time we give them something to make their lives easier, they use it against us by trying to harm themselves." Since the deaths, the military is guarding against future suicides by only giving out bed sheets and blankets during sleeping hours and monitoring detainees in their cells every three minutes.


Any detainee thought to be a suicide risk is now placed in a restraining, green anti-suicide smock for 72 hours and given a psychological exam, he said. There are about 20 detainees in smocks.


Medical personnel have cut down the amount of medicine given to detainees since two detainees who had hoarded pills took overdoses in May.


The doctor said there have been no suicide attempts since the deaths on 10 June, but there have been several incidents of detainees harming themselves, such as cutting themselves with paint chips or beating their heads against walls.


Three Guantanamo Bay detainees who hanged themselves in their cells were tested psychologically only days before their suicides and showed no signs of being depressed, a military doctor said yesterday.


The doctor suggested the examinations, performed one to two weeks before the suicides on 10 June, supported assertions by military officials that the prisoners killed themselves as a political act - not because they were despondent about their prolonged detention.


"None had showed any signs of being depressed or having a mental condition," said the doctor, who is the chief medical officer in America's prison camp on Cuba's south-east tip.


He spoke on condition of anonymity.


The three detainees - two Saudis and a Yemeni - were given psychological tests as a formality because they had recently participated in a hunger strike, including one who refused meals for 180 days. The military said they were found hanging in their cells from nooses fashioned from bed sheets.


After the suicides, Admiral Harry Harris, the commander of the detention operation, called the deaths an act of "asymmetrical warfare" against the US military. "If you ask my opinion, I agree with the admiral that this was somewhat of a political statement," the doctor told reporters visiting the US naval base.


He said medical personnel examined the detainees some 10 minutes after they were found and "did everything we could" to revive them. He suggested that American guards might have noticed the detainees sooner had the prison not been following International Red Cross recommendations, including how dark their cells should be at night. "If we did everything the Red Cross wanted, there would be very little that we could do to keep detainees alive short of putting them in a strait-jacket," he said.


"Every time we give them something to make their lives easier, they use it against us by trying to harm themselves." Since the deaths, the military is guarding against future suicides by only giving out bed sheets and blankets during sleeping hours and monitoring detainees in their cells every three minutes.


Any detainee thought to be a suicide risk is now placed in a restraining, green anti-suicide smock for 72 hours and given a psychological exam, he said. There are about 20 detainees in smocks.


Medical personnel have cut down the amount of medicine given to detainees since two detainees who had hoarded pills took overdoses in May.


The doctor said there have been no suicide attempts since the deaths on 10 June, but there have been several incidents of detainees harming themselves, such as cutting themselves with paint chips or beating their heads against walls.

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#9

Salaam


who knows how they died?


It may be the work of the prison guards of Gutanamobay ??? who know


Or they might have committed suicude (as per resport)


u can never trust American politics and media!


Rest Allah knows the best


Another thing that is a reason to suspect American Govt is:


those were MUSLIM men they knew better that "suicide" is haram in Islam!!! I dont think any sane Muslim can do this act...even in desperation..coz the result is eternal hell fire!

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