Question for Muslims

[Ahlam]

Salam alaikum!!so now I can only post every now and then while I am at work

I'll try to post as often as I can, but because I only can come here while at work, I can only post when I get a chance, and no longer over the weekend:(

Jazaakallah khair

<i><b>Salamu 'alaikum,</b></i>

Pleased to hear from you Josh and to know you are doing well alhamdulillah.

Me too I don't have the internet at home that's why I don't post regularly. I can post only while I am at work and when I have some free time.

We hope to see you more often among us. May Allah help you to attain the Truth you are looking for!!

Salam & (Fi-Amman-

Ahlam

[Muslimah]

salam alaikum,
Muslimah,


I am no sure what you mean by  my position on Jesus.


I understand that Jesus was a messenger of Allah, just the same as Moses, Muhammed, etc.


As a christian, it is a little difficult to get away from the 'trinity' point of view.


.

as salam alykom


Insh a Allah, since we decided to make this thread as informative as possible:


http://www.islamsms.com/en/modules.php...article&sid=107


good article about trinity

[radiyah]

Alsalam 'alaykom wa rahmat Allah .


When did this thread start where was I, I am sorry josh for not contributing, welcome on board, and may God help u in your seeking and may he be your assistant.


Masha'Allah sister Muslimah, jazzaky Allah khayr for al your efforts, and all of u brothers and sisters. And I remember that post by Dan to Michelle, I almost cried when I read it, it is so impressing. Keep it up Josh, u r on the right track

[joshua72]

Salam alaykum


I tried reading through all of this, and even though I understand what each is saying, the answer is still a little confusing to me.


I seperated everything into 3 different questions to help make things easier.


1)Do Jews and Christians make it to heaven? (looking for a simple "yes" or "no" to help with confusion lol).


2)If a Jew or Christian firmly believes in God, and that there is only one God and recognizes Muhammed(pbuh) ( as well as many others) as his prophet, what then would seperate him from a Muslim and stop him from entering heaven?


3)Also...what about someone who is neither christian, nor jew, nor muslim. This is far fetched, but bare with me for the example:


What if someone grew up on an island all by themselves, without having anything. No books, no communication with others, not a single thing. How would he know to praise God? Without the Quran, he wouldnt. He wouldnt even know what religion was, let alone which one was correct. Would he get into heaven?It is not his fault he did not know God - he had no one to teach him of God and no way of finding out.

[radiyah]

hope I helped here  just felt like using it I like it

Thanku Muslimah for clarifying, jazaky Allah khayr. nice smiley, though no smiley showing lol.

1)Do Jews and Christians make it to heaven? (looking for a simple "yes" or "no" to help with confusion lol).

If they beleive in prophet Muhammad as a messenger for all human beings, in other way they must pronounce shahada. There are many priests I heard about that embraced islam, but they are hiding it afraid of what will happen to them from their family or masters in church, so these only Allah knows about them we dont, so we cannot say if any will go to hell or fire except Allah, but if he dies in a state of disbeleiving in Allah's onnes and that prophet Muhammad is his last messenger for all humanity, as the Quran said and ahadeeth of prophet Muhammad, that it will not be accepted from him.

2)If a Jew or Christian firmly believes in God, and that there is only one God and recognizes Muhammed(pbuh) ( as well as many others) as his prophet, what then would seperate him from a Muslim and stop him from entering heaven?

If u are in this state then u are not a jew or christian, u r a muslim but u need to pronounce the shahadateen, then nothing will stop u from entering heaven except Allah's will.

3)Also...what about someone who is neither christian, nor jew, nor muslim. This is far fetched, but bare with me for the example:
What if someone grew up on an island all by themselves, without having anything. No books, no communication with others, not a single thing. How would he know to praise God? Without the Quran, he wouldnt. He wouldnt even know what religion was, let alone which one was correct. Would he get into heaven?It is not his fault he did not know God - he had no one to teach him of God and no way of finding out.

Allah is the most merciful, those who are savages and in the state that u said, their destiny is left to God, and as he said in Surat Al-esra':


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


15. Whoever goes right, then he goes right only for the benefit of his ownself. And whoever goes astray, then he goes astray to his own loss. No one laden with burdens can bear another's burden. And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).



so u c no punishment until a messenger is sent, and here is the tafseer (i hope u all know what is tafseer now after sister Muslimah defined fully )


http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=17&tid=28664


read the last paragraph, aya 15, then go next for second page.


But I would like to stress on something here Josh, that we cannot say about any1 who will enter heaven or hell except Allah the Al-mighty, because we never know what is in the future and we do not know what is in the heart of people, only God knows, so I cannot addres any1 right now who does not beleive in Allah or the prophet as kafir, because he might in the future be a muslim who is maybe even better than any born muslim. I hope that u will find ur answers, and by will of Allah all ur confusion will disappear.

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom


Mash aAllah Radiyah is really attending here, but an extra point will not harm.


Josh, if u think that we are reluctant to answer directly saying that unless u r a Muslim u can not make it safely, no we are not.


Radiyah gave u a clear answer I will emphasize it, may be she added about preists being Muslims in some cases.


Just to help u settle the confusion.


1. Allah Chose Islam as religion to His servants from day 1.


2. He sent numerous Prophets and Messengers starting from Adam ending with Mohamed peace and prayer be upon all of them calling for the same religion, giving the same teachings, calling for the same bases which is Allah Is One, we must worship Him the way He wants us to.


3. Allah Clearly told us to follow all of these messages, failure to do so puts us in trouble with HIm.


4. Being Jew or Christian does not put u in the state to worship Allah as per His rules, thus puts one in major trouble. Unless u die believing in Allah the Only One Deity worth to worship and Mohamed is His Messenger, u r in trouble.


5. I will try to make it simple using a worldy example, suppose u r employed with Intel. However, for reasons known to u, decided to attend to work at Microsoft. U did attend on time, stayed extra hours, strictly observed dead lines with your assignments, maintained an excellent behaviour, proved high level of professionalism. Remember all that is done while being in Microsot while u r employed with Intel. What do u expect from Intel, remember u didnt attend one single day.


The logical result is that, u will receive notices from Intel, followed by salary deductiom, then termination for continuous absence. Am I not correct? while Microsoft will not even pay u. U r in major trouble.


Same thing, u r worshiping, doing good deeds, but worshiping who and doing them to who is the ISSUE.


was I helpful.......


I am still waiting for u on the other thread, I know it is closed I will open it again to see your input.

[joshua72]

jazakalah khair for your patience and answering!


I see what you are saying, except I am still confused about the part where I asked what would seperate a Christian or Jew from a Muslim.


The Christian/Jew believes in the same God as the Muslim and worships only that one God, so why then in the eyes of Allah would they be any different - and what would make one deserve heaven over the other?


Take me for example - I am not a Muslim. I was raised as a Christian. But as you all know, I believe that there is only one God and no one else is worthy of praise and worship besides him, and I recognize Muhammed as his last messenger. I read the Quran and believe in it, but I do not pray 5 times a day facing Meccah, nor do I speak arabic. I pray numerous times a day - but not in the same way Muslims do.


I worship and praise the same God that a Muslim does, and I believe and have faith in the exact same things. What is it that seperates me from a Muslim - and why would Allah not grant me the same paradise as He promised the Muslim even though I believe the very same things?

[spider]

The Christian/Jew believes in the same God as the Muslim and worships only that one God, so why then in the eyes of Allah would they be any different - and what would make one deserve heaven over the other?

Asalaamu alaikum,


I hope nobody minds me jumping in here. The main difference between the Jew or Christian and the Muslim is the denial of Muhammed (may peace and blessings be upon him) as a messenger of Allah.


I cannot say what would make anyone deserve heaven over any other person (Muslim or non-Muslim). That is Allah's domain

Take me for example - I am not a Muslim. I was raised as a Christian. But as you all know, I believe that there is only one God and no one else is worthy of praise and worship besides him, and I recognize Muhammed as his last messenger. I read the Quran and believe in it, but I do not pray 5 times a day facing Meccah, nor do I speak arabic. I pray numerous times a day - but not in the same way Muslims do.

I believe you ARE Muslim. You have in your statement above, taken the SHAHADA. This makes you Muslim. It is the base of our religion. <b>One God and Muhammed as the last messenger.</b> As for you not praying 5 times a day, and not speaking Arabic. This simply means you are not a "practising" Muslim. If you believe in the Quran then the next logical step would be to put that guidance into practice - to begin to face Meccah when you pray. To pray 5 times, to fast etc. It is not necessary for a Muslim to speak Arabic by the way.

I worship and praise the same God that a Muslim does, and I believe and have faith in the exact same things. What is it that seperates me from a Muslim - and why would Allah not grant me the same paradise as He promised the Muslim even though I believe the very same things?

As I already mentioned - you ARE Muslim and if He wills, Allah will grant you paradise.


I hope I have made things clearer and not confused the issue any


-spider

[Muslimah]

Spider Mash a Allah u did clarify points and why would any one mind any one jumping into a topic, we are all here to learn and help others learn. Arent we...?


<b>But I think the issue of heaven is settled for non Muslims Spider. am I not correct</b>.


Many Ayahs clearly states that only Muslims will make it, but also with Allah's mercy. May be u mean, we can not judge regarding Muslims, who might be destined for how long in hell before heaven, yes in this u r right??? But basically u must be a Muslim.


And Josh u dont need to thank us for being patient, it is our duty, plus you r doing us a favor by bringing points and allowing us to reply and invest our time in the name of Allah. So carry on


Ok I will add one point Josh, u r assuming that Jews and Christians worship the same God as Muslims do, originally it is supposed to be this, but do they????


I mean for example do Christians worship the same God? are u sure they do?? to the best of my knowledge, they worship God who materialised into Jesus who sacrificed himself (or his son) on the cross. They worship Jesus who is also involved into a trinity issue about which we will not debate now. I have a verse of the Bible that i can quote here, usually I am so reluctant to do so. I dont like to discuss this way. My duty is not to underline bible mistakes but rather help u and others to realize the Quran...


So to settle your confusion Joshua, Christians and Jews of today do not worship again DO NOT WORSHIP the ONE God we are supposed to worship...


So how does this place them?


As Spider said making it to heaven is Allah's domain, but He Clearly stated in Quran just as in the post of Radiyah that Allah accepts only Islam. Logical enough it is what Allah commanded for...


Again Joshua as Spider told u, if u believe the way u expressed your self, u only need to take the decision to declare this to Allah in full with the intention in your heart that u r becoming a Muslim. In other words, to make a decision to change back to where u belonged. To go back home... To revert to Allah.


Praying and all will come later Insh a Allah. By the Will of Allah we will help when u cross safely.


But the big step is to pronounce shahada if u feel really comfortable about it...


U only have to say:


Doing so will make u a Muslim and thus can not call your self a Christian who believe in Allah the One and His Messenger..


If u ready for this now just say so will Insh a Allah walk u thru....


Because pronouncing the Shahada will entail other issues such as taking a bath immediately after saying with the intention of purifiying yourself and moving from disbelief into belief and also there are other issues that I will have a brother talk to u about....


Just let us know your position..


I know u must be sleepless now, thinking too much, wanting to hear an answer that u r fine like this, since u believe the way u do, u dont need to be formally committed. U need to hear an answer that nothing separate u from a formal Muslim. May be because u know u will have to change the life style, stop drinking alcohl, dating, other stuff, u might be also concerned about family members or friends. But Josh, in the Day After nothing will benefit u, nobody will be allowed to take responsibilities on your behalf.


Am I not right?? but Josh, if u feel the way u expressed yourself, who else is Worthy to be committed to except your Lord the REAL One, WHo Created u, granted u all the bounties u r enjoying, including and primarily finding the truth...


But I dont like to sound pushy, if u really feel the way u expresseed. U need to settle your situation without wasting more time. Unless u r not ready..


<b>Because matter of fact, one of the conditions of taking Shahada is accepting it in heart then saying it with tongue.</b> Again Josh, all praise be to Allah Who helped u cross the most difficult part of the fence. Do not delay your Shahada simply because no one can guarantee to live for one more minute until even I finish typing these lines.


So just in case, what u need to say with your tongue is:


<b>Ash hadu ana la Ilaha ilaallah wahadahu la shareeka lahu wa anna Mohamadan a`abdohu warasoluh wa ansa Issa a`abdullah wa rasoluh
</b>


This translates as:


<b>I bear witness that their is no Deity but Allah with no partners or associates, Mohamed is his servant and Messenger and Issa is His servant and Messenger. </b>


Insh a Allah when u r done with this, u r formally a Muslim.....

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom


Ok back to our set of points in an effort to help any seeker easily go through the journey step by step.


As we already explained before that Allah made us all testify before Him that He Is our Only Deity worth of worship. We also covered the part of Adam's creation and the ever going problem with Ibless (Satan).


Now Who Is Allah, go to the last post on this thread:


http://www.islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=1641


More on the same topic, Allah Is Unknown to us, we dont know His being, we can not imagine His being, but we know through His Names and Attributes that He is of a Super Power, nothing like Him.


After Allah Created skies and earth, Created Adam and informed the angles about him, he presented the trust to skies, earth and mountains. The trust is the responsibility to obey or disobey, believe or disbelieve. Skies and earth refused to assume it, while mankind accepted it as explained in Quran:"Truly, We did offer Al­Amanah (the trust or moral responsibility or honesty and all the duties which Allah has ordained) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they declined to bear it and were afraid of it (i.e. afraid of Allah's Torment). But man bore it. Verily, he was unjust (to himself) and ignorant (of its results)." (Quran 33:72). In other words, skies, eaths and mountains of course have no will, while we do. Actually that is also the difference between mankind and angles.


We have the ability to believe or not, while angles dont have this ability.


we have brain through which we know Allah by looking at His signs just as in this post:


http://www.islamsms.com/bb/index.php?showtopic=80&st=0


refer to the 5th post, u will see how Allah emphasied the difference between mankind and other creation which the brain and how we must use it.


Back to the wisdom of creation, Allah Created us obviously (makind and Jinn) to worship Him. Some may say well I dont see this as a goal of their existence.


To them I say, fine, they are in other words searching for the purpose of life, let us tackle this point from a worldly point of view.


Take for example a wealthy business man who established a group of companies, gave u a position in this well established firm? will u examine his motive behind this. His motive could be as we expect first is to invest his money, but this is only one apparent point, he may also be seeking to participate in market or technology development, secure a market share, introduce new technology, help openining job opprotunities or even contribute to the economy. It could be a long list of purposes, some of them known only to the business man involved that could not be expected by us. U will never busy yourself with this purpose in fact u will just focus on how to excel in your work, build your capabilities, imporve your performance, learn more to get closer to the senior managment and so forth. U will try and maintain a good behaviour, abide by the internal by laws and more.


so how about Allah Who Is the All Wise. His Wisdom Is incomparable, so why would we busy ourselves of the purpose of why are we here. It is enough that Allah Gave us a chance to be here, to worship Him, to enjoy the numerous bounties He bestowed on us, to try and get more closer to Him. It is a chance Allah Allowed us to take Insh a Allah by going through this transit trip taking us to the final destination.