U HAVE FULL PERMISSION TO DELETE THIS THREAD ....FORGIVE ME....

[abdussamed]

There is a message removed of mine. I think I'm disliked here. Ok...

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom

Suhail no hard feelings at all, u know that no need even to explain, wa Allah a`alam I think I know your motive.

But let me say something here, due to my lack of knowledge, from what I know is that salafi is one who strictly follows the righteous predecessors. Am I not correct naseeha? it seems to me that it is a different trend.

may be naseeha u may elaborate more here. As for me I like to be muslim, so that when I am in my grave I will answer without hesitation Insh a Allah I am muslim, my Lord is Allah, my Messenger is Mohamed, my book is Quran

[naseeha]

Ok sister muslimah let me give you of whatever i know ok about this:

As far as the <i>"salafees"</i>. this term <i>"salaf"</i> is used to describe the "salaf-us-saalih" who are the sahaabas (i dont know if it includes the 2 or three generations after the rasul S.A.W.S). Today there are a group of people who are referred to as <i>"salafees"</i> they say that they belong to ahlussunnah... I heard that they have said some crazy things like "may allah split the tongue of sayed qutb". and i know that they follow strictly quran and sunnah... and will not accept any contradiction therein... as for suhail's allegation that they do not accept any of the other sources of ilm, i do not know about this. One of the major criticisms of the <i>"salafees"</i> is that they treat themselves as the only ones that are correct and everyone else as wrong.

As for the ummah... many people of the Ahlus sunnah treat the <i>"salafees"</i> as a different sect of islam... i would strongly recommend that we do not do this... <b>who are we to judge??</b> the most dangerous thing that people do with regards to this situation is that they treat islamic knowledge as something trivial...

for instance the brother said:

<b># One of their worst arguments is asking for a Daleel </b>[/(Scholarly proof concerning religious matters) from Qur'an or Sunnah, which belongs to the Ulamaa (Scholars of Islam). They do not understand that Qur'an and Sunnah are the pillars on which all other Adillah (proofs) are built including Qiyas, Ijma'a, Q'aul al-Sahabi, and last but not least Maaruf (what people of good morals have agreed upon as being a good practice).

now i am not saying that he is wrong... because i simply do not know about this matter... BUT what happens to alot of people they begin to think that they can follow acts of bid'ah, if you try to correct them on this bid'ah and you produce daleel they brand you as <i>"salafees"</i>. so you see the danger. This has happened alot in trinidad...

another thing along the same lines is this:

the brother wrote about acts like not making du'a after fard as being a quality of the <i>"salafees"</i> now this may be so... but there are many people who do not make a congregational dua' after fard because they hold that it is an act of innovation and these people are not <i>"salafees"</i>. In fact this whole du'a thing is very controversial and honestly i have been looking at both sides of the argument and those who make the du'a have yet to produce proof for it, but when you ask for this they call you a <i>"salafee"</i>.

now the whole idea is this it goes back to our methodology...

i have been saying this with daleel for the past few months and am just getting ignored...

our approach to knowledge should be to:

<b>DEAL WITH TAUHID FIRST!!!!!!!!</b>

The most important topics that we should start with are...

<b></b>

1. tauhid/shirk

2. sunnah/bid'ah

3. al walaa wal baraa

the major flaw with many muslims today is that they look at issues like du'a, tashahhud, and all these controversial issues and they dont even have the basics down... when this happens controversy will happen....

now people may call me a <i>"salafee"</i> for saying this but if a people claim to be muslims (specifically "ahlus sunnah"), then no one of us has the right to contradict them unless we can

<b>PRODUCE OUR DALEEL!!!!!!!!!</b>

As long as we stick to the what allah says, what his rasull says then we cannot go astray...

the article was a bit troubling because there were no grounds for saying these things... but when the brother was admonished he handled it very well alhamdulillah i must commend him on that...alhamdulillah... i look forward to see more of his posts in the future...

wa salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

[Suhail]

assalamualikum

many thanks for the good praise "but when the brother was admonished he handled it very well alhamdulillah"

alhamdulillah i knew my article was gonna cauze bit of trouble thats why i asked for forgiveness b4 hand ...yes ur rite i didnt have no grounds to post what i did but i did it coz they has been an uprise in our locally about this thing and our teachers imams etc have stopped us going to study abroad....as for the dua thing as far as i know everyone agree its not sunnat to do it after fardh salah but people do it coz duas r accepted after salah and when the imam does a short dua he is frown upon as people think u need to do dua after salah even in mecca madianh they do not do dua after salah coz its not sunnat ....the main real reason i posted this was coz back home .... a close friend of mine after going 2 uni came back different as like he started questioning the imamas etc and he basically followed his on self on day he prayed salat like imam hanifa the imam malik then shafi..etc he just followed them all saying he follows no imam ne more and he only does what quran and hadith says....even great scholars like imam bukhari followed an imam it think it was imam shafi ... u can become an imam urself if u think u r a master at the quran and all hadith even more then past pious scholars like bukhari etc but these days i dont think ne one can b that ..... so ne way i had said id b back in a few weeks but i had to check up on the forum ..

so take care evry 1:)

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom

jazakum Allah khairan both naseeha and suhail. and naseeha, I am sort of aware of this type of people, but I was always under the impression that as we know Salafi is referred to those generations after generations as u just stated. So if they call themselves salafi, they are following the salaf u saleh, r u getting my point.

and I came accross examples, though I prefer not to bring it out or even say which country see, I prefer not to spread bad news. but for example people in a certain country were against building modern toilettes in public places (under the pretext that the Messenger never used similar one), when someone in authority handled it in a very nice way, he gave orders to remove their cars during the meeting. when they went out, they did not find the cars, asked about it, one in authority said the Messenger never used one.

[naseeha]

Ok i understand what you are saying muslimah...

Brother Suhail... i saw the same thing happening in my country a few years ago brothers went to university and came back wanting to change all the things that we did...they told us NO CONGREGATIONAL DUA AFTER FARD!! because back then i didnt want to hear them.. we went crazy when they told us that...

Till this day no one has been able to show us the proof of where the rasul made a congregational dua after the fard salaah those people who said things like that in my country did so without any proof...

Now brother please dont misunderstand this post... i am not trying to argue anything.. nor do i want this post to turn into one that is a debate about the permissability of du'a after fard...

my point is that i know exactly what you are saying and it has had an effect on us...

these people who say things without proof in our country are making now a public mockery of islam and the muslims....

My dear brother you will not believe what they did...

about two days ago they banned a muslim brother who graduated from the aleemiyah institute in pakistan because he made statements saying that muslim people in my country were struggling hard for american visas <i>(*they called him a terrorist)</i>... can you believe that... they banned him from all the masaajid in our country that they controlled... Brother that is only half of it... the media heard of it... and you can just imagine what they did with such a story....

you know what happened next... the only person in their organisation who have studied islam... he resigned because they of the whole fiasco.... brother this is not all... the leader of this organisation was not chosen based on any islamic criteria... instead they used a purely westernised method of choosing a leader... i know these things are true because i have been present at some of their meetings and i am seeing what the media is doing... yesterday this thing was the paper headlines... today also it made the headline...

brother suhail... can you imagine how the people in my country look at muslims now...

can you imagine how difficult the work of da'wah is now going to be... subhanallah...

this is what happens when muslims look to follow islam and do not make actions based on what the quran or sunnah says... brother you see i used this example because what you said there to me was a situation that happened many many years ago in my country... and because of this hap-hazard approach to islam... many things are happening.... Brother suhail imagine... there are many more incidents that i didnt say because of my limitation in time....

My dear brother... i do not wish for you, what has happened to us in this country.... i wish that you all look use the proper approach to 'ilm....

may allah increase us all in knowledge and may he guide all those muslims who are are going astray...

ameen..

please heed my words brother...

please do not take my post as argument... It was all out of love for you as my brother... and for all my muslim brothers and sisters worldwide...

wa salaamu alaikum wa rahmatullah

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom

naseeha now u explained to me something about this dua issue, so they say no congregation dua after fard, not no dua. Ok

I am not near a scholar, but I have a little word here. Now if u in the masjed praying in congregation, someone came late joind on the 2nd, 3rd or even 4th Raka`a, upon salam he has to get up and continue the rest. In case people are making loud dua, this person will find major difficulty to finish his prayer. Just a logical thing. Because I suffered this myself in some masjed here in egypt.

u know what brothers i really prefer to be called Muslimah just muslimah. Besides we might as well search how grave it is not to follow imams. I mean Quran and sunnah are enough arent they naseeha?

naseeha I want to start another thread where u post pls if u want of course some info about the muslim community in your country. how they came there? how many and all that. only if u want of course

[naseeha]

ok muslimah...

I tried looking for such a new thread and couldnt find anything.... but i started my own ok

http://www.islamsms.com/bb/showthread....=&threadid=1403

now everyone can tell us about islam in their own country...

[honeycomb]

salam my fellow brothers & sister; i wish u God's blessings,

i don't even know it. but i'm one of those prayers u speak of, in :

* i raise my hands after Ruku'

* i move my finger up once during Tashahhud

* the men is not obligated to cover their heads (but most do)

* the men do not wear turban, but a traditional headgear

but i do not :

* cross my arms towards Sujud

* not raise my hands for Duaa (i do raise it!)

& i confuse the :

* not pray Salat Al-Ishraq. coz we pray duhaa (is it the same)

i'm actually asian. the asia continent have muslims too. men don't wear turbans here, its not part of our culture. they wear a traditional headgear to cover their head. maybe you'll say we're not following the sunnah. but, we don't ride camels too. are we not following the sunnah? singh wear turbans too... that doesn't make them followers of Prophet Mohammes (SAW)'s sunnah. following the sunnah is best, but it's not really a sin is it if some is not obligated?

& "their preaching is based on Qur'an & Sunnah ONLY!" i really believe a return to the source is a very good thing. now, islam has divided just because of differences in belief. take shia & sunni divide - it's a sad thing. its ironic, as islam is suppose to unite muslim brothers not divide them. if division occurs, then it's a sign that something's wrong.

i read a hadith, where Prophet Mohammad (SAW) said that Christians & Jewish are divided into 71 & 72 sects; & muslims will be divided into 73 sects. but only 1 sect will go into heaven - the one who follows him & his teachings.

as Quran & sunnah is the nearest source, it's the safest bet that these teachings are true.

(source : Tirmidhi Hadith No. 171, Abu Dawood Hadith No. 4579)

it's not that we're negating the ulama. we do respect them highly. but if they themselves can't respect each other & show us the tru meaning of islam by uniting & respecting, & solving differences in a noble way... that shows something is not quite right.

“verily, those who divide their religion & break up into sects, you (O Mohammad) have no concern in them in the very least. Their affair is with Allah, Who then will tell them what they used to do.” [6:159]

& about the debate on the pilot, doctor thing. i admit i'm trained in computers. but i also i read & study the quran every single day too. i also watched religious programs, read books to get knowledge, try to englighten myself. doesn't that count as anything? am i still a fool? if an ulama read programming books everyday, i think i will give him a chance to speak out in my field. if he's not as best, i'll happily guide him. thus vice vers, i hope the ulama will also guide me in islam. so guide us, don't just say we're fools. thank you...

pardon if i hurt anybody's feelings. & do enlighten me.

[Suhail]

which imam do u follow ?

i follow imam shafi... u ?