11-21-2003, 02:20 PM
I didnt bother reading the whole thread (as usual), cause its too long. I'll just reply to what to this small part.
Quote:2:190-193 \"Fight in the cause of God those who fight you ... And slay them wherever ye catch them ... And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression and there prevail justice and faith in God ...\"Where did you get this from? Cause if you used your own mind and made your own research you wouldnt have posted this verse, because the <b>complete</b> verse says:
Quote:2:190 \"Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, <b>but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors.</b> \"2:191 \"And slay them wherever ye catch them, <b>and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter;</b> but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; <b>but if they fight you, slay them.</b> Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.\"As you can see, from the selection of verses that you have given, only little parts are taken. Those little parts are taken out of context to show nothing but false hate from us.
2:192 <b>\"But if they cease, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.\"</b>
2:193 And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; <b>but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression.</b>
Quote:2:216 \"Fighting is prescribed for you and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth and ye know not.\"the next verse, 2:217 says:
They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: "Fighting therein is a grave (offence); <b>but graver is it in the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members."</b> Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you Turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be companions of the Fire and will abide therein.
In other words, we are to fight those who prevent access to the Sacred Mosque and drive out its members. Until now, its all self defence.
Quote:2:224 \"Then fight in the cause of God and know that God heareth and knoweth all things.\"actyaly, this is where you show your foolishness the most John. The verse of 2:224 says:
And make not Allah's (name) an excuse in your oaths against doing good, or acting rightly, or making peace between persons; for Allah is One Who heareth and knoweth all things.
Quote:3:157-158 \"And if ye are slain or die in the way of God, forgiveness and mercy from God are far better than all they could amass. And if ye die, or are slain, Lo! It is unto God that ye are brought together\"3:169 \"Think not of those who are slain in God's way as dead. Nay, they live finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord.\"Your point? What's wrong with this verse? Is it wrong to fight for your God? If your religion was under attack, would you defend it with your life John? If not, then surely you should be ashamed. I know true Christians that would die for their religion. And believe it or not, I respect anyone who protects his faith whatever the hell he might follow. Because only these people are the honrouble ones, and only these people are the ones that I would wish to be on my side. Anyone else is littrely nothing.
Quote:3:195 \"... Those who have ... fought or been slain, verily I will blot out from them their iniquities and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath; a reward from the presence of GodThe complete verse says:
3:195 And their Lord hath accepted of them, and answered them: "Never will I suffer to be lost the work of any of you, be he male or female: Ye are members, one of another: Those who have left their homes, or been driven out therefrom, or suffered harm in My Cause, or fought or been slain,- verily, I will blot out from them their iniquities, and admit them into Gardens with rivers flowing beneath;- A reward from the presence of Allah, and from His presence is the best of rewards."
Those of us who suffer for our religion are to be rewarded in the Gardens of Heaven. So is those who fight for their religion. Now you dont take this out of context. The Qoran also speaks about WHEN to fight for your religion. As you saw in the above verses, we fight for our religion when its under attack. Its called defence. anything else would have the same reply as the quote before this.
Quote:4:101 \"... For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.\"The complete verse:
4:101 When ye travel through the earth, there is no blame on you if ye shorten your prayers, for fear the Unbelievers May attack you: For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies.
simple! If you can understand simple english, you will understand that this verse says that it is OK to shorten our prayers when we fear for our lives in foreign lands. Nothing about killing unbelievers.
Quote:4:74, 75 \"Let those fight in the cause of God who sell the life of this world for the Hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of God whether he is slain or gets victory, soon shall we give him a reward of great (value). Those who believe fight in the cause of God and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil, so fight ye against the friends of Satan, feeble indeed is the cunning of Satan.\"4:74 Let those fight in the cause of Allah Who sell the life of this world for the hereafter. To him who fighteth in the cause of Allah,- whether he is slain or gets victory - Soon shall We give him a reward of great (value).
4:75 <b>And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!"</b>
As you can see, the two verses are of protecting the oppressed and fighting oppressors. Defence again.
Quote:4:89 \"They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they. But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of God. But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them…\"the next verse says:
4:50 Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: Therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (Guarantees of) peace, then Allah Hath opened no way for you (to war against them).
So in other words, we do not fight those who has peace with us and do not fight us.
Quote:4:95 \"Not equal are those believers who sit at (at home) and receive no hurt and those who strive and fight in the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than those who sit (at home).5:36 \"The punishment of those who wage war against God and His apostle and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land. That is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter.\"The same reply goes to the earlier ones about defending ones faith.
Quote:5:54 \"O ye who believe. Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.\"5:54 says
O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,- lowly with the believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth. And Allah encompasseth all, and He knoweth all things.
Quote:8:12-17 \"Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): \"I am with you. Give firmness to the believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. This because they contend against God and his apostle. If any contend against God and his apostle, God is strict in punishment ... O ye who believe. When ye meet the unbelievers in hostile array, never turn your backs to them. If any do turn his back to them on such a day, unless it be a stratagem of war ... he draws on himself the wrath of God and his abode is Hell, an evil refuge (indeed).\"In continuation:
8:19 (O Unbelievers!) if ye prayed for victory and judgment, now hath the judgment come to you: if ye desist (from wrong), it will be best for you: <b>if ye return (to the attack),</b> so shall We. Not the least good will your forces be to you even if they were multiplied: for verily Allah is with those who believe!
here again, the verses you gave are about fighting in a war. But was the war because the unbelievers are not muslims? the verse I gave 8:19 shows that that is not the case. it was because the unbelievers were attacking.
Quote:8:59-60 \"Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly). They will never frustrate (them). <b>Against them make ready</b> your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom God doth know ...\"Here again we go back to the reply of defending your faith. God is not asking us to attack non believers. He is simply telling us to be always ready for any attack.
Quote:8:65 \"O apostle! Rouse the believers to the fight. If there are twenty amongst you, patient and persevering, they will vanquish two hundred. If a hundred they will vanquish a thousand of the unbelievers, for these are a people without understanding.\"I believe that this verse has a story behind it. I think it was during (or before) a war and the unbeliever's army were much larger than the muslim army and thus the muslims were scared (and if they were scared then obviously it wasnt them who were attacking, it was the larger (unbelievers) army). Allah is thus telling the prophet to rouse the muslims and get their spirits up.
Quote:9:5 \"... fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war) ...\"the before this
9:4 (But the treaties are) not dissolved with those Pagans with whom ye have entered into alliance and who have not subsequently failed you in aught, nor aided any one against you. So fulfil your engagements with them to the end of their term: for Allah loveth the righteous.
So you can see, that the pagans that are at peace with us are not to be hurt. only those who attack us. again, defence.
Quote:9:14 \"Fight them, and God will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame ...\"the verse before this says:
9:13 Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger, and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them? Nay, it is Allah Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!
And again, defense.
Quote:9:29 \"Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and his apostle nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth (even if they are) of the people of the Book, until they pay the Jizya [religious tax] with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.\"Thats a law. A non-muslim living under muslim rule should pay a special tax. I heard an islamic lecture once that said that the Khalif Omar used to dress as a beggar and go to the streets and see how his people were fairing. Once he saw a beggar, who after talking to him, turned out to be a jewish beggar saving his money in order to pay the tax. thus, the khalif made the tax only on non-muslims who can afford it.
Quote:47:4 \"Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks, at length when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them) ... but if it had been God's will, he could certainly have exacted retribution from them (himself), but (he lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of God, he will never let their deeds be lost.\"47:4 Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers <b>(in fight),</b> smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.
thats in a war. what do you expect?
Quote:61:4 \"Truly God loves those who fight in His cause in battle array, as if they were a solid cemented structure.\"back to the reply on protecting your faith.
as you can see, the person who supplied you with these verses is trying to hide the truth from you. either giving you wrong verses, verses with missing and crucial parts, or ignoring earlier or after verses that make a BIG difference.
try using the brain that God bless you with instead of someone elses.
the hadith will come later inshallah.