Masjid prayer times

[Dan]

Bismillah

In the Sahih Al-Bukhari:

Narrated Abdullah bin Mas'ud: I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to Allah?" He replied, "To offer As-Salat at their EARLY STATED FIXED TIMES." I asked, "What is the next?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents." I again asked, "What is the next?" He replied, "To participate in jihad in Allah's Cause." Abdullah added, These were told by Allah's Messenger and if I had asked more, he would have told me more.

As-Salam Alaikum

My question for my brothers and sisters who may be of help is about the purposeful delaying of prayer times by mosques in the United States. According to this hadith and my reason, the mosques should offer salah at the early fixed times. Instead they will delay the prayer on average an hour later than when it is time to pray. The reason I have been given when I pointed out this hadith and the lack of following it is that more people are able to get to the mosque at these later times. My reply is so what? Should not the Islamic institution for the area uphold the rules of Islam in every instance? I would go to the mosque more often except they pray so late.

Praying on time is put above jihad and obeying ones' parents. If we as muslims fail to do these two we can be thrown into Hell fire. Yet something put above jihad and obedience is looked upon as merely a suggestion?

I was told also that delaying the prayer times makes it easier for people to get to the mosque to pray. So now we are allowed to change the religion of Allah in order to make it easier for us. If we rid more rules of Islam, I am sure we could get more people in the mosques. People would convert in droves if we did as the Christians have done and changed the religion to fit the needs of the people.

We are the sinners. We need the help and guidance of Allah Most High. Obviously we do not know what we are doing because Allah sent messengers to assist us. Why do we do such things?

I am open minded to anyone who can show me daleel that can help me.

I already know of hadith where Rasulullah, salahi salam, delayed prayers for specific reasons like heat or battle or other mitigating circumstances. That is not the issue but rather the consistant delaying of prayers for the desires of people.

I apologize if my thread seems agitated, but this issue has been causing me great duress.

Jazakum Allah Khairun

As-Salam Alaikum wa Rahmatullah

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom brother Dan

First off welcome to the board and no your thread does not look agitating, on the contrary it reflects nothing but concern about the religion Mash aAllah. I don't claim myself a scholar, but yes I know this hadeeth very well, I also know another narration where the Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم repeated salat on time three times before moving to other items. Now I think what u r putting here raises much concern la hawla walaqowata ila billah. My suggestion is to seek other brothers who can be logical, talk to them about it, how important prayer is, then organize yourselves and discuss with those in charge of masjid. Tell them it is essential to do it the way Allah wants it not us. This is very threatening as u just put it. It could be a beginning for more innovation. Before doing so, make Salatul haja (2 raka`a extra and them make dua for Allah to help, assist, and support u on your effort).

Also before talking to people in charge read ayatul korsi in order to avoid any inteception of Shaytan. You know of course that shaytan leaves no chance to do so specially when it comes to discussion between muslims. And may Allah help u brother.

BTW I am not living in the US so i really don't know if this is applied other places, may be our US resident members can also say somthing here.

[Ahmed Abdullah]

Asalaamu alikum Brothers and Sisters!

I have heard this complaint many times at Masjids in the USA. Alhamdulilah our Masjid does not have this problem. The most our Salat is delayed is 15 min at Fajr and Zuhr. Sorry for taking so long to post here. And I too Brother Dan think you have a very legitimate concern for this matter. We all must guard our Salat as our Prophet (SAW) told us to do before his death. In sha Allah we all will become one big Muslim Ummah and heart as we should be. Ameen!

[Ali]

Walaikumusalam

A valid question. I think you should present this question in front of a scholar. Because perhaps there are some circumstances, or fatwas already regarding this matter.

-- Ali

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom Ali

I think to the best of my knowledge cases when salat might be delyaed are knows, travelling, war which is salatu lkhawf (fear), Haj during the day of Ara`afat before going to Muzdalefah. However, still we might consult someone in such case. Can u do that Ali??

[Dan]

Bismillah

As salam alaikum

I have asked people that are supposed to have knowledge. I use this phrase because we live in times where there are no scholars of Islam like there used to be. Even our Islamic universities have abandoned the muslim style of teaching for the western ways. We now earn credit hours for knowledge in our deen!?

The answers I recieve vary from person to person. I hate to have to be this way but... if I get an answer from a muslim who seems overly preoccupied with gaining acceptance from the nonmuslim world then I am more leery of his opinion. Yet those who seem to hold fast to the pure Islam, I am more inclined to listen to them.

The answers that I have recieved vary. One side says that it is most important to get as many people to the moque as possible and so delaying prayer is acceptable because more people means more graces. It is also from the sunnah that the prophet used to delay his prayers.

The other side says that it is best to pray at the earliest times as is the sunnah of the prophet when other activities or tribulations were not occuring.

The side who favors delaying is more vehement in their debate whereas the other side tries to put "pray at the early times" as nicely as possible.

In my life I have usually experienced more fervent emotions coming from the side that is usually wrong. For example when I debate a non muslim, they are usually the ones who get the most amped. For me it does not matter who comes to the religion of Allah as long as I am allowed to be muslim. I only give dawah because I am ordered to do it. I have had to watch all but one person I care about reject Islam. This does not mean that I will give it up! On the other hand Chirstians seem to want their message to spread so badly. It is like as long as everyone else is doing it then it is okay. The christians who are like this the most are the ones that try to tell me that you can do anything as long as you say Jesus is your savior. They do not commit murder or anything like that but usually practice seedy business pratices, lying, gossiping, and other things they view as no big deal.

I feel praying at the correct times should be the example set by the mosques. If the mosque is not upholding Islam then why should the muslims in the community?

I used to go to a mosque where mixing of the sexes was rampant. I had to wait usually forty-five minutes after jumah in

order to leave the mosque without brushing against sisters.

Some of the community tried to solve this problem but the outcry from the rest was so great to continue thier sinning.

These were the practices at the mosque. I could tell you what happened outside the mosque in their houses but I am deviating from my point.

Why is that lately the voice for truth in Islam has become so quiet if not silent? Of what are we so afraid? People leaving the religion? So what! This deen was greater when there were fewer muslims. This deen was at its peak when truth was proclaimed without a care for who opposed it.

Tell me where a community of 1,000 believing muslims live and I will go there, where pure Islam is taught, where shariah rules, where the commands of Allah Most High are of the utmost importance with all else falling away to what it truly is- decaying temporary dunya. Insha'Allah

Why will people not listen to what the striving muslims have to say? Because we do not have pieces of papers that say how educated we are, how important we are, how successful we are. If I focused my life in the pursuits of what they deem credible then I am no longer a credit to myself let alone my Wonderful Gracious Forgiving Lord.

Look throughout the world and we can see what our ummah has reaped from it pacification to others desires, from submitting not

to Allah but to the economic and political pressures from abroad. Arabia used to be a place where other civilizations feared to go because of how hearty the people and climate. Now we have McDonalds in Mecca and bombers from foriegn countries a mere forty five minute drive from our Holiest Mosque.

This did not happen over night. It started though when we lost sight of the true prize and started changing the little things in our religion. Now the little are huge and we wonder what happened.

I need to be called into account. When one of the companions deviated from Islam inadvertantly, the others would show him the right way through the Quran and sunnah of our beloved prophet. Keep track of me and ask me what I have done for Islam today. What acheivement can I not wait to be called to account for in front of Allah?

So please push me. Push me to change what is happening at my mosque. Push me to change whatever other problem I come to this board with because my complaining is not changing anything. Help me get in motion to strive in the cause of Allah for without that we are nothing but waiting our turn to die. I know the intention of a good deed is written as one good deed but I would much rather have my deed done and multiplied by ten to seven hundred times.

Let us all strive for the highest and middle part of jenna. Let us die without any regrets. I want to achieve in this life before I am too old to do so.

Allah Save me. Allah Guide me. Allah Forgive little insignificant me. May Allah reward us all with the best of Blessings!

Jazakum Allah Khair

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[Ahmed Abdullah]

Wa alikumus salaam wa rhamatuallhi wa barakatuh Ahkee,

Bismillah

Yes Ahkee, unfortunately people try to find the Fatwa that fits their way of thinking to support their reasoning. I believe in my little knowledge of Islam that we should offer salat at the earliest times possible. I know of a haddith that says that our Prophet(SAW) told us if we only knew of the rewards of giving the Azhan and praying with jummat on time at the Masjid, we would crawl to get there. I also know of a haddith that says there will come a time when a Muslim will try to make the haram thing halal to justify his deen. Another haddith also states that the Muslim Ummah will become so very weak in Emam and their deen and be more worried about this dunya than the most important part of this beautiful religion... the Hearafter. May Allah strenghten us and guide us to make us strive to be the best Muslims. Ameen. I am sorry Brothers that I do not remember the narrator of these haddiths, but I do know that they are strong ones. I am only an infant to Islam and I try my best to learn and practice the Sunnah of our Prophet(SAW). In sha Allah, I will one day be able to remember and recall these very important things for our Emam. So please Brothers correct me if I am wrong because I do not want to say false things or misguide anyone.

I too need to be called into account. So my respected Brothers, I ask the same as Brother Dan to push me to help our Ummah and be able to tell Allah(SWT) that I did my part in spreading the message of Islam. We all will be asked this question, and are we ready for this tough day? Allah(SWT) has returned a Brother in our community two weeks ago, and it has hit us hard. It is a BIG wake up call for us all to remember we do not know when it is our time to return to Allah(SWT).

Masha Allah Brother Dan for your wonderful insight and true passion for our relgion. In sha Allah, I want to meet you and give you the biggest hug! Oh how I wish you were here now so I could give you that hug. I love you Ahkee for the sake of Allah(SWT). May Allah let our paths cross so we can meet and talk to each other so we can grow and strive for the hearafter. Ameen.

Wa Salaam my dear Brothers

[SisterJennifer]

Asalaamu alikum Br. Dan,

You are stating many problems that we have seen and continue to see in our Mosque as well. It seems we are a bit more fortunate though, we had the same troubles with saying the prayers on time, women and men mixing freely, people saying it is radical to expect our women to cover themselves, etc. until we had one group who decided to stand up for doing things according to the Quran and the Sunnah. The other side says, "Oh what will the Christians think" and many other things but they are fearing the people and not fearing Allah.

Right now our community is in the middle of a great power stuggle. We are a community undergoing a very big test, we are even in danger of splitting. Let me tell you brother, we moved here after accepting Islam because we wanted to follow the religion, we never expected that we would have to struggle in order to do it. Struggling to practice Islam in the Muslim community? It's really something.

Brother, have you considered getting together some brothers and sisters who agree with you? One thing you could do is begin to hold meetings where you share your concerns, and reach out to others in the community. Even if your group is small it does not matter. Once you have organized your thoughts and concerns, go to your Mosque and tell them how you are feeling and make a real push for change. Be prepared for a long haul, and be patient. If we see something is wrong, we should change it with our hands, and I think you are in a position to do that. But as long as you stay quiet nothing will happen. Organize yourselves, and stand up for Islam.

Another thing I want to share with you from my experiance is that getting support from your sisters is important. They say men follow the lead of the women, that the women are what hold together the household, and once the household collapses, the society will follow. Alhumdulilah, when our stuggle began, there were only a very small handful of us women standing up for the Islamic way, and we were for the most part ignored. But now we have grown in only the space of one year to a very stong number. We can no longer be ignored, and with the women comes the children, and Alhumdulilah, our small Mosque that once was empty is now becomming quite full. And it all happened without compromising real Islamic values.

I hope by sharing a bit of our story will help you begin to push for change in yours. It seems this is the problem of the American Muslim community. Maybe in America this is our jihad. May Allah guide us all, strengthen us, and make us better Muslims so we may serve Him better. Ameen.

Jazak Allah Khairn Br. Dan.

[Dan]

Bismillah

As salam Alaikum

I appreciate my fellow muslims responce. I agree with you Sr. Jennifer. Remember who was the first person to embrace Islam upon Rasulullah recieving revelation? Khadijah gave great support and encouragement to our beloved prophet. It was she who had to convince him saws that he was not crazy and should do as Allah has commanded him. Another good part to getting sisiters involved is that they can talk to their husbands where it matters most... at home. A brother cannot continue a conversation if he is not invited to come over whereas the wife can pursue the subject constantly with her husband and in the best of manners since she probably knows him best.

Unfortunately, I do not have access to sisters. Brothers that I know well are of the opinion that delaying is okay. My wife is also not sure she even wants to be a muslim which is a whole other jihad that I am dealing with because she is either muslim or we are not married. I know that I can be with a monotheistic nonmuslim but it is not what is best for my deen. I have told Allah I would give it all up for Him and I will Insha'Allah.

Anyway, I appreciate the encouragement and Insha'Allah will pursue the matter more dilegently. Br. Todd your message warms my heart and helps my iman. Insha'Allah if we do not meet in this life, Allah will allow us to recognize one another in Paradise where we will not have to worry about all this.

Jazakum Allah Khair for helping me feel the bonds of Islam through this board.

As salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[Muslimah]

as salam alykom brothers and sisters

First off akhi Dan, may Allah brings u contement of the heart with a final settlement regarding your marriage. Well just another test I guess. Now I was really very concerned about this matter, being a Muslim living in Egypt all my life never encountered this situation and as u see my first response was according to the hadeeth Todd referred to. But today I managed to talk to some one I think of knowledge, he is hafiz Quran and has not gove. relations , he is imam as well although he is an engineer. Any way, he said in cases like being in Dar ul kuft, it might be acceptable to allow more people come in. I mean allow them the chance, he based his opinion on Jabriel coming the next day of Mi`raj to teach the Prophet sallah Allah a`alyhee wa sallam salat at the beginning of the time, and next day came to pray with him at the end of the time and informed him this is the time span during which u may perfom salat wallahu a`alam

Yet I still shall investigate the matter, I am really so concerned about it.

May Allah support all of us and increase our Eman, again may Allah illuminates your wife's heart or replace her with a Muslim pious wife ameen

Totally off topic, u know what brothers and sister Jennifer, me too make me feel the bond sobhan Allah. And by the way, we have our own issues also although living in a Muslim country