Am I wrong for feeling like I do about this?? (USA + Israel)

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by Brother Todd </i><b>This is not true. If you really know what has been going on there, you would have known that the Israelis never stopped their curfews, roadblocks, raids of the villages and all the other things they were doing before this so called roadmap to peace. I know this doesnt give the Palestinians the right to do the things they do either. Both sides are guilty, but the real truth is that the Palestitians were not the first to strike. I know this for a fact from watching video from BBC, and other reliable sources. Seek the truth and ye shall find. This stuff wasnt shown here in the US TV.</b>

As you stated in the next post of yours, that Michelle should read and educate herself, I would suggest the same for you. The internet is an amazing thing, but you must be very careful of the websites you visit. Not all are true to either side of this conflict.

Yes by all means read some History of that region. Go back further than 1967 though.

Curfews and roadblocks should have stayed in place, this is nowhere near such a catalyst for a suicide bombing. Settlement building and fence building was continuing and we were negotiating how to handle this including sanctions and withholding funds to Israel. The Palestinians may not trust the US, but they are making the ability to hold Israel responsible Impossible! You think I'm pushing just the Israeli side, but as I said in my first post of this thread, I'm merely playing the devil's advocate. Michelle has heard one side, I'm simply showing the other.

Now let's get to the focus of your crossing my point - Israel held to their ceasefire! Fence building and settlement building is not firing! I'm going to have to ask again, do not make my words into something they are not.

Give me a break - do not demean me like a child, as the BBC, Al jazeera, and numerous french papers are all in my daily readings.

Anything before 1967 doesn't matter for the case in point. That is unless you want to argue the birthright to the land At that point we might as well just let the two sides kill each other off since neither will ever be proven right.

For the next person that wishes to debate me, the least you can do is not assume I mean something I did not say - ask to clarify and I will, but this game of putting words in my mouth is numbing.

[Ahmed Abdullah]

First off, I did not assume anything on your behalf.

Curfews where people can not leave their houses to get food, medical treatment or any other nesicities for life is OK? Keep in mind while they are in their houses there is no water or electricity. This is not part of a roadmap to peace. Holding to a cease fire includes killing people and raiding homes and bulldozing them down is a cease fire? Come on man lets be realistic about this. This stuff continued to happen while this roamap to peace started. I am not playing a game here. If that is what you think, that in itself is numbing. I stated cold hard facts here, I did not put words in your mouth.

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by Brother Todd </i><b>First off, I did not assume anything on your behalf.</b>

Curfews where people can not leave their houses to get food, medical treatment or any other nesicities for life is OK? Keep in mind while they are in their houses there is no water or electricity. This is not part of a roadmap to peace. Holding to a cease fire includes killing people and raiding homes and bulldozing them down is a cease fire? Come on man lets be realistic about this. This stuff continued to happen while this roamap to peace started. I am not playing a game here. If that is what you think, that in itself is numbing. I stated cold hard facts here, I did not put words in your mouth.

They should have been kept temporarily,yes. Israel laxed the curfew slightly and removed many of the checkpoints once a ceasefire was called, as was requested by us. It was moving in the right direction, it was deminishing. This is the first time ever congress had discussed sanctions on Israel, but now we'll never know how the talks would come out thanks to the bombings.

I am not supporting all of Israels actions, as I know you are not supporting suicide bombings.

We're playing a game of semantics here and it's starting to go in circles.

Let's get to the heart of the matter, and something I'm highly curious to know (anyone is welcome to answer this) - How would you solve the crisis?

[MichelleSeeking]

Brother Todd:

Where can I find a reliable account of pre-1967 Palestine/Israel history? Can you suggest any books or websites?

PhatMonkey:

<i>"For the next person that wishes to debate me..."</i>

This thread is not about YOU. It's about Israel and Palestine.

<i>"If you'd take the time to read and educate yoruself..."</i>

Why do you think I'm here? I have one side of the story and now I'm looking for the other side of the story. THAT is how a person educates themself, thank you kindly.

I'm not going to respond to you anymore. Whenever anyone says anything you jump up on a soapbox and get downright antagonistic. I'm not on this forum to start fights. If you want to "even the scales" that's fine but do so in a polite manner rather then acting like I'm some dumb oaf and you are All Knowing. Condescension is not my cup of tea.

<b>Muslimah:</b> <i>"Michelle u just made THE point."</i>

I'm glad SOMEBODY was able to see what I was saying!

This is the fundamental reason why I'm here:

<i>Why does America have double standards? </i>

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by MichelleSeeking </i><b>Brother Todd:</b>

Where can I find a reliable account of pre-1967 Palestine/Israel history? Can you suggest any books or websites?

PhatMonkey:

1><i>"For the next person that wishes to debate me..."</i>

This thread is not about YOU. It's about Israel and Palestine.

2><i>"If you'd take the time to read and educate yoruself..."</i>

Why do you think I'm here? I have one side of the story and now I'm looking for the other side of the story. THAT is how a person educates themself, thank you kindly.

I'm not going to respond to you anymore. Whenever anyone says anything you jump up on a soapbox and get downright antagonistic. I'm not on this forum to start fights. If you want to "even the scales" that's fine but do so in a polite manner rather then acting like I'm some dumb oaf and you are All Knowing. Condescension is not my cup of tea.

3><i>Why does America have double standards? </i>

1>Give it a break - no one said it was I was simply stating that in order to keep this thread from being derailed, as you are taking my words to mean more than they simply are stated (or out of context) and then debating them.

2>Don't take my line out of context, and then act offended - You were on a rant about assumptions that you didn't take the time to validate one way or the other.

You can choose not to respond, either way, I'm going to continue to post here.

You are the one infering my demeanor, please don't act as if I said any of that. On the contrary, I preceded much of what I said with disclaimers as not being fully my personal views. You stated very one sided sources, I responded with very one sided opposites, that is all.

3>Why not? Do you believe that all problems can be solved with the same methods?

What do you believe your government is there to do? Every Government in the world is there to do what's best for it's people (or atleast that is the expected function). Do you believe that we should hold the same standards for everyone, even if it is means that millions of innocents would die as a result? The UN has double standards, as does every country in the world. To say that double standards right off the bat are bad is a poor way to view it. Let's stop these generalizations and get specific.

Do you want to know the actual reason that Israel has so much support?

[phatmonky]

phat I really saw this post very challenging, pls just try to keep low level of tension, we are all her to share with one another and not to challenge

[Muslimah]

Phat I really don't like to delet and edit unless things are out of line. but I guess u still can keep a thread going with a low level of tension. People are all here to discuss and share info not to fight or brag about their knowledge. See no one is knowledgable. Allah Is the All Knowing, He bestows His Knowledge on whoever He wishes. So we must not brag about what we dont own. Take it easy man.

Michelle I see your point and what is happening is because we are not Muslims as we should be. It is all in Quran. Michelle. Jews has to gather in one place, because there will be a final war between both parties according to Quran. So we must work on ourselves and be better Muslims Michelle Insha Allah.

[phatmonky]

<i>Originally posted by Muslimah </i><b>Phat I really don't like to delet and edit unless things are out of line. but I guess u still can keep a thread going with a low level of tension. People are all here to discuss and share info not to fight or brag about their knowledge. See no one is knowledgable. Allah Is the All Knowing, He bestows His Knowledge on whoever He wishes. So we must not brag about what we dont own. Take it easy man. </b>

I meant no respect my that post you edited- I was honestly offering an alternative for her, while I continued with those willing. Sorry if it came across sarcastic

As for bragging, I meant to in now way. Michelle has taken offense, and I guess I got short with the unfounded rants, instead of correcting them one by one. I'll find a better way to tell her to slow down in the future

[MichelleSeeking]

"Allah Is the All Knowing."

Amen!

[Ahmed Abdullah]

Hello Michelle,

This book you might find helpful, is called Israeli Palestinian conflict, crisis in Middle East. The journalists at Reuters wrote it.

I hope this helps. Peace!