Zar is Haram but I need to clear few points on what happen in my house!

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Oh no I was not offended brother Waheed, I was just clearing tha fact that I was a sister that is all, :D


And we did not say that you are here to make a massive debate, you are here just to understand the truth about Dhikr according to Quran and Sunnah :) and we are trying our best to help you, so take it easy and do not hesitate to ask anything you want to be cleared up. Now at the time of Prophet Salla Allah alayhee wa salam there were no lights to put on and off, there was oil to light in small lanterns, and sometimes they will not find oil to light it up, so that has nothing to do with must put light off or on.


Yes he used to pray at night for hours, he used to recite Albaqara Al-Imran and Al-Nisa in one rakaa, but he is the Prophet Sala Allah alayhee wa salam, even his companions found it hard to do what he used to do, so how can we now at this time and all this rapid life do the same. You are not obliged to do it, just 2 or 4 raka's followed by shafe'and witer will do, and then some Athkar which is Dua' and you have the ones i provided for you is more than enough dear brother.


And since you are from Pakistan now I understand what your family is doing, and what they do is not from Islam at all, I have seen some of these rituals on TV, and for sure they are Bida' brother, all Scholars following Quran and Sunna say it is haram, I will make more research about this to give you more proof inshaAllah than just my word as seeing and hearing, B) so hold on there I will be back soon with more proof inshaAllah.


Salam

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom brother Infoseeker, I will keep this handle as you requested last year.


Insh aAllah I will take this chance and elaborate on the matter, I m preparing INsh aAllah something and will post it soon for everyone's benefit.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom brother Infoseeker, I will keep this handle according to your own wish that you expressed sometime back.


Let us take a more global look into the process of dhikr in order to cover it in more detail. Actually I would like to take this chance for everyone's benefit Insh aAllah.


What is dhikr?


dhikr is to remember Allah, not that we forget Allah at any moment supposedly of course.


How do we do dhikr? In Quran Allah Taught us as follows:


"Those who remember Allah (always, and in prayers) <b>standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides</b>, and think deeply about the creation of the heavens and the earth, (saying): "Our Lord! You have not created (all) this without purpose, glory to You! (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners). Give us salvation from the torment of the Fire." (3:191)


"When you have finished the (congregational) prayer, <b>remember Allah standing, sitting down, and lying down on your sides, </b>but when you are free from danger, perform the prayer. Verily, the prayer is enjoined on the believers at fixed hours." (Quran 4:103)


As you can see, the noble Ayah describes three positions a Muslim might take while making dhikr:


a. Standing up.


b. Sitting down.


c. Lying on the side.


Certainly Allah Didnt specify those positions haphazardly, if you think well, standing up includes Salat and many other positions such as going out of the house, you must say the dhikr we learnt for this, entering market you also say the relevant supplication, leaving after had been with friends you use the relevant supplication and so forth. Leave alone of course that you may just do dhikr while walking to and from anywhere, or more to say be a reason for Allah's remembrance just by striving to apply Quran and Sunnah, taking certain positions towards people, be in a stressful position or unjust position and still apply Quran that people would say O Sobhan Allah look how he/she behaves, look how does not speak ill of people, Allahu Akbar he was able to harm this person but he didnt. In a way, if a Muslim can maintain a proper attitude, he/she will be a cause of Allah's remembrance, which is classified as well as dhikr. Hope you are following brother.


Alright, let us carry on.


Sitting down, you may be among people and time has come for evening supplications, and thus you do them sitting down, you may also in case you are distressed, just sit facing Qiblah and keep saying for example: la ilaha ila anata Sobhanak inni kontu min zalemeen. You may recite Quran sitting down, yes of course reciting Quran is dhikr, even the best. You may be sitting down on your computer doing something for Allah on the Internet, designing an Islamic software, or doing Dawa on the board, and this is also dhikr.


Laying on your side, you repeat those supplications before sleeping and upon waking up, plus of course when you wake up at night and turn around the bed, you also say a certain supplication. Of course not to ignore late night Salat which is the honor of a Muslim.


As you can see from the above mentioned, Allah inscribed dhikr for us from the minute we wake up till we go back to bed. But actually, the deep meaning is that Allah Must be in our hearts day and night even while sleeping. It is a matter of having Allah as a Monitoror all the time, like for example, I m going to answer this person this way, with a quick thinking, will this please Allah, yes then say it, no then don’t say it. I m going to meet those people who want me to join them go this place today, will this please Allah, then yes otherwise no. This is the highest from of dhikr brother, to have Allah always in your mind when you are trying to determine how to live your life, to always put Quran and Sunna and try to recover the Ayah fits the situation and apply and so on.


This brings us to the core of interest, can you here set on a specific position/formula to only use while doing dhikr? on/ no. But rather it is multiple and they are all acceptable.


Again as sister Radiyah explained to you, at the time of the Messenger there was no electricity and he had no other choice, living in a very small house of one room only, unlike us now living in luxurious houses and places. It is up to you whether or not to switch lights on, specially if you are up late at night and might not want to disturb others. Although, of course a man is recommended to wake up his wife and children to also perform Salat at night.


Insh aAllah I helped brother and may Allah Accept.


You never answered my question, do they stand up hand and hand and swing from one side to another while doing the dhikr brother, or where they sitting down?

[Infoseeker]

Salaam to all my brothers and sister


Firstly many thanks for your reply sister Radiyah and sister Muslimah , allahumtho-llia , what a great reply back and what a great lively debate it is.


Okay secondaly to all those who are reading this. I am replying back from work so i have to be careful that no one is going to tell me off , as you know in UK we have this work policy about internet useage at work.


Sister Radiyah What I ment to say was that I felt at some point in this tread that we were about to kick off a new debate about sec's and I did not wanted to debate on this subject in this tread. I am also fully aware that the prophet used to use lantern and thanks for clearing this too. Like sister Muslimah said , sometime we do forget of the condition that we live in.


Okay Sister Muslimah , and sister Radiyah I once again stress with out any shame , I don't follow my parents beleive which is barelvi who strongly beleive in the lineage of the prophet in the sense that who ever come's up to them can claim to be a lineage they would simple fall for this. now as my parent and my Allah guide them is truely a blessing from Allah that I have not followed that path. i love m folks and i could only tell them and explain to them that this type of Lineage is wrong , special where people who claim Lineage also claim they can tell the further and provent black magic , jinn and so forth.


Sister Muslimah when these people came to my house they all sit down , women in one room and men in the other room. / this Biree person who claim lineage , ask for a speark connect to the women side so they too can hear his speech.


He started off with explaining how to perform Dhikr


in a nutshell he said when we say Allah 0000000000000000000000 it should come out out with slow speed and a deep relaxing tone


he said turn the lights off and no matter what happens no one is to turn the lights on until the dhua is made and is over with.


and like I said even I was in tears when he went into the death process and started to ask us all to imagine that we were dead and that the Angle of death came to us and so forth.


What prompt me to ask the question about Zar is that I was reading a book call "The Jinn and Human sickeness by DR. Abul'-Mundhir Khaleel ibn Ibraaheem ameen ISBN 9960-732-44-4 and it mention that Zar is if a group of people sat down and do a type of Dhikr in a unformally way its a form of Zar


I shall later on post that quote from him.


so sisters and brothers we sat down and did this dhikr

[radiyah]

Bismillah


So look what I found about the Barelwi from wikipedia:


<b>Barelwi or Barelvi (Hindi: बरेलवी, Urdu: بریلوی) is a movement of Sunni Sufism in South Asia that was founded by Ahmed Raza Khan of Bareilly, Rohilkhand India (hence the term Barelvi). Barelvis are a sizable portion of the Hanafi Muslim communities in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, South Africa and the United Kingdom, besides having a presence in other places around the world.
</b>


Ahmad Raza Khan was the central figure around which the movement was promoted in the Indian subcontinent between the 19th and 20th centuries, earning numerous followers and opponents. The name Barelvi came into use to label the followers of Ahmad Raza Khan. The terms Nuri and Barkati refer to the Sufi Tariqa associated with Ahmed Raza Khan. The term "razavi" refers to those people who have been initiated into the Qadri Sufi Tariqa via the lineage of Ahmed Raza Khan. Followers of Ahmad Raza Khan in India are mainly Hanafi by Madhab (School of jurisprudence), but accept the other three Sunni schools to be valid.


If u see the underlined, I think this will clear things up, so what me and sister Muslimah said is true, they are Sufis, and sufism is not accepted by True Sunni Muslims or those following Quran and sunnah, and as you see that the lineage is to Ahmad riza and not to Prophet Muhammad Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. So I dont know what is so special about him :huh:


And they are not sunnis even if they say so, and Abu haneefa never used to do what they are doing so how can they say about themselves that they are hanafees???


May Allah preserve you and your family from that man, try to talk to your family and explain to them in a lovingly and peacefull way, and we will keep feeding you with answers insha'Allah


Take care dear.


Salam

[Infoseeker]

Salaam sister


thanks for that relply its very useful information , the problem is I have already try in the most peaceful and loving way its just so hard to pull them over to my side , on 16th December 2008 I shall be going to pakistan to my village where I shall take some photo of these to place to even further give you feed back on what haram is been commited within this area.


just 2 years ago the village burned this man and then made a template out of his grave claiming he was a binee someone from the lineage of the prophet peace and blessing be upon him.


sister so that i know no haram is being commited in my house , are we staying then that this form of Dihirk is invalid.


ie not sunnah .


shall look into this Ahmad Raza Khan

[radiyah]

Salaam sister
thanks for that relply its very useful information , the problem is I have already try in the most peaceful and loving way its just so hard to pull them over to my side , on 16th December 2008 I shall be going to pakistan to my village where I shall take some photo of these to place to even further give you feed back on what haram is been commited within this area.


just 2 years ago the village burned this man and then made a template out of his grave claiming he was a binee someone from the lineage of the prophet peace and blessing be upon him.


sister so that i know no haram is being commited in my house , are we staying then that this form of Dihirk is invalid.


ie not sunnah .


shall look into this Ahmad Raza Khan

Bismillah


Subhan Allah, and then by time they worship these graves instead of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and they think that they are doing good, the mushrikon at the time of the Prophet Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him, the mushrikoon did not know that there is one Allah? they did, but they said that we worship these statues to make us close to Allah Subhanahu wa Tala, and many are falling into this trap these days, what is the difference between them and that small group in Iran who still worship the fire, I saw a program once about them and one woman said so arrogantly:" People think that we wroship the fire, the truth is that we worship God, but through this fire." just imagine, and as Allah said in The Holy Quran


<b>In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
</b>


The revelation of the Scripture is from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise. (1) Lo! We have revealed the Scripture unto thee (Muhammad) with truth; so worship Allah, making religion pure for Him (only). (2) Surely pure religion is for Allah only. And those who choose protecting friends beside Him (say): We worship them only that they may bring us near unto Allah. Lo! Allah will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Lo! Allah guideth not him who is a liar, an ingrate.(3)
Surat Al-Zumur 39


No one is worthy of worship but Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'la, they worship graves and statues, and humans who became ashes and dust whom were created by Allah Subhanhu wa Ta'la, even Prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him, he is dead and in his grave, when we go to Madeena sometimes I hear some women say O Muhammad give me, o Muhammad heal me, is he Allah to give you or heal you, they will say Shafaa, but the Shafaa will be on the day of judgement and not when he is dead. On the day of the sahabas did they use to ask Prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him o give us o heal us, no they used to go and tell him ask Allah to give us to heal us, and after his death they will not go to his grave and ask him anything, they would go to his kins and the sahabas whom they know Allah will accept their Duaa. Even nowadays if you see a reputable Scholar or any person you know and trust that he is a good beleiving person, you can ask him pray for us, other than that is shirk.


<b>No one is worthy of Worship but Allah, we ask no one but Allah, no one gives but Allah, no one Heals but Allah, He is The Only One to ask and turn to, no graves no human, no kins, no lineage no one but Him. We seek refuge only in Him, Subhanahu wa Ta'la to what they ascribe to Him
</b>


Alhamdulilah for The blessings of Eman, Alhamdulilah for The blessings of Islam, Alhamdulilah for the blessings of Tawheed, Tawheed of The Names and Attributes of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'la. Alhamdulilah Rab il-Alameen


If I am right it is from Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'la, and if wrong from my own self and shaytan.


We will be waiting for these pictures dear, may Allah preserve you in your trip ameeeeen


Wasalam

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Oh and about that Thiker, no it is not valid, it is not in Sunnah. and Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'la knows best.


Willbe coming with more insha'Allah


Salam

[Infoseeker]

Bismillah
Oh and about that Thiker, no it is not valid, it is not in Sunnah. and Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'la knows best.


Willbe coming with more insha'Allah


Salam

siser I ment Dhikr and not Thiker , so let me but this in plain english


are we staying sitting down in a dark room with a GROUP OF MEN and doing Allah 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 is haram


a sin , not valid Dhikr ?


Yes or no will do


may allah reward you

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Jazaki Allah khairan Radiyah, I had a feeling they are Sufis just by the description of the formula.


May Allah Keep us on the correct path.


Infoseeker, I m not putting words on Radiyah's mouth, but you can judge for yourself, no one can say what is accepted to Allah and what is not. Pls refer to my post above regarding dhikr and measure accordingly. Also I strongly advice you to stick to those forms of dhikr and maintain Quran and Sunnah only. Well, the form of dhikr you are talking about was never practices by the Messenger blessing and peace be upon him as far as I know. And Allah Knows best.