Ask a Shia

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


I know you are still searching or looking, but just thought to give you more to calmly think about and process in your mind.


I know I already posted Ayahs regarding the privilage of the companions in general, but here are more:


" But the Messenger (Muhammad) <b>and those who believed with him (in Islamic Monotheism) strove hard and fought with their wealth and their lives (in Allah's Cause). Such are they for whom are the good things, and it is they who will be successful."</b> (Quran 9:88).


" <b>And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to Madinah) and the Ansar (the citizens of Madinah who helped and gave aid to the Muhajirun) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). </b>Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success." (Quran 9:100)


<b>"(And there is also a share in this booty) for the poor emigrants, who were expelled from their homes and their property, seeking Bounties from Allah and to please Him. And helping Allah (i.e. helping His religion) and His Messenger (Muhammad). Such are indeed the truthful (to what they say);- And those who, before them, had homes (in Madinah) and had adopted the Faith, love those who emigrate to them, and have no jealousy in their breasts for that which they have been given (from the booty of Bani An-Nadir), and give them (emigrants) preference over themselves, even though they were in need of that.</b> And whosoever is saved from his own covetousness, such are they who will be the successful." (Quran 59:8-9)


Please note that the One Who Said those words and Granted this level Is Allah. Also note that Allah included all of them without exception. It is easy for Allah to Make exceptions and explain situations in detail such as the case in the Ayah defining the Munafeqeen:


And that He might test the hypocrites, it was said to them: "Come, fight in the Way of Allah or (at least) defend yourselves." They said: "Had we known that fighting will take place, we would certainly have followed you." They were that day, nearer to disbelief than to Faith, saying with their mouths what was not in their hearts. And Allah has full knowledge of what they conceal." (3:167)


And this is clearly defined here, it leaves no doubt because the Ayah specifies who exactly is classified within. Those who were called to fight and didnt join.


Allah Didnt make exceptions, thus, those noble Ayahs cover Abu Bakr, Omar and Othman and certainly Ali may Allah be pleased with all of them. It is a comprehensive definitions covering all those who lived, met, took the pledge to of the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam (men, women and children) It is so clear, unless you think that Shia scholars know better than Allah and can be allowed to analyse and take positions and then have millions of people follow them. You said that Shia dont slander the companions, I heard a hadeeth lesson including clear slandering of Omar may Allah be pleased with him and full of lies as well.


who are those scholars or who you and me are to allow ourselves to sit in comfort, enjoying the luxury of the 21st century and crticise those people? what exactly is the position of those scholars compred to those people whom may Allah be pleased with all of them fought, endured hardships, immigrated, faced tyranny for Islam to sustain???


If you just read logically and open your mind i m sure you can see the point, specially when it comes to Ayahs of Quran covering a certain group of people. Quran is our book, right??

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Karbala, I m also still waiting here. :D

[Karbala]

My exams are almost finished. Soon I will be very active inshallah.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Insh aAllah doctor. May Allah Makes it useful knowledge for you, Makes you means to Heal people, may Allah Inspire you always with the proper treatment ameen.

[Karbala]

Ok its been a while so forgive me if im not up to speed with everything.


In His Name the Most High

BTW, since you are calling yourself follower of Ahull Bayt, did Ali Radiyah Allah u an`hu or any of his descendants practice Muta, I know none of them?????????

Hmm interesting question, I actually don't know the answer to it. Give me a while ill find out. Ps even if they never practiced Muta doesnt make Muta haram, there are traditions narrated from the very same people establishing the permissiblity of Muta. Sort of like none of them practiced divorce but that doesn't make divorce haram.

Where in Sunnah of Ahul Bayt that you go to visit Qum before leaving for Haj, or Karbala, although I gave you the correct text of the Hadeeth, you still insist on its sacrdness. Any way, where in Sunnah that you do this?

I think you have it all wrong. It isnt a sunnah to go to qum before or after hajj. People simply do it because logistically it is easier when you've taken time off work and already have connecting flights too and from Makkah. Personally i went to Qom outside the Hajj season. It really has nothing to do with hajj.

Where are the hadeeth that establishes an advantage of Qum???? or make it necessary to visit before or after Haj???

However In Shi'i narrations there is mention of certain merits of visiting the shrine of Lady Fatima Ma'suma in Qom,


From Bihar al-Anwar by Allama Majlisi


وَسَتُدْفَنُ فيها امْرَأةٌ مِنْ اَوْلادى تُسَمّى فاطِمَةَ، فَمَنْ زارَها وَجَبَتْ لَهُ الجنّة


“A lady from my children, by the name of Fatima will be buried in Qum. Whoever visits her [shrine], will certainly be admitted to Heaven.”

[Karbala]

Muslimah none of those ayahs you quoted confer any general virtue for the sahaba. They are limited in scope to the true believers amongst the sahaba. You know as well as I do that there existed amongst the sahaba certain hypocrites as well.

who are those scholars or who you and me are to allow ourselves to sit in comfort, enjoying the luxury of the 21st century and crticise those people? what exactly is the position of those scholars compred to those people whom may Allah be pleased with all of them fought, endured hardships, immigrated, faced tyranny for Islam to sustain???

Muslimah I dont wanmt to get into an argument about certain Sahaba, most specifically Abu Bakr and Omar since these are the two that create the most controversy. These arguments never tend to end well. If you insist on discussing about them I will happilly tell you why I am not too fond of their actions in islamic history, but my advice is it isnt worth it.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Ps even if they never practiced Muta doesnt make Muta haram, there are traditions narrated from the very same people establishing the permissiblity of Muta.

I just thought to share with you all these hadiths regarding Mut'a marriage:


<b>Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 59, Number 527: </b>


Narrated 'Ali bin Abi Talib:


On the day of Khaibar, <b>Allah's Apostle forbade the Mut'a </b>(i.e. temporary marriage) and the eating of donkey-meat.


<b>Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 86, Number 91: </b>


Narrated Muhammad bin 'Ali:


'Ali was told that Ibn 'Abbas did not see any harm in the Mut'a marriage. <b>'Ali said, </b>


"Allah's Apostle forbade the Mut'a marriage on the Day of the battle of Khaibar


and he forbade the eating of donkey's meat." Some people said, "If one, by a tricky way,


marries temporarily, his marriage is illegal." Others said, "The marriage is valid but its


condition is illegal."


<b>Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3259: </b>


Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that <b>Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage.</b>


<b>Sahih Muslim Book 008, Number 3259: </b>


Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that <b>Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage.</b>


<b>Sahih Muslim Book 021, Number 4763:</b>


'Ali b. Abi Talib reported that <b>Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade on the Day of Khaibar temporary marriage (Muta') with women </b>and the eating of the flesh of domestic asses.


<b>Book 008, Number 3262:</b>


Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father: <b>Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage </b><b>and said: Behold, it is forbidden from this very day of yours to the Day of Resurrection</b>, and he who has given something (as a dower) should not take it back.


<b>Book 008, Number 3264: </b>


Malik narrated this hadith on the authority of the same chain of trans- witters that 'Ali b.


Abil Talib said to a person: You are a person led astray; <b>Allah's Messenger (may peace </b>


be upon him) forbade us (to do Mut'a),


<b>Book 008, Number 3265: </b>


Muhammad b. 'Ali narrated on the authority of his father 'Ali that <b>Allah's Apostle (may </b>


peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the contracting of


temporary marriage and eating of the flesh of the domestic asses.


Book 008, Number 3266:


'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) heard that Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) gave some relaxation in connection with the contracting of temporary marriage, whereupon he said: Don't be hasty (in your religious verdict), Ibn 'Abbas, for<b> Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited for ever the doing of it</b>-And eating of the flesh of domestic asses.


My question now to Karbala is that<b> if Muta marriage is the marriage that is destined for divorce </b>(<i>because you can marry a girl for a couple of hours or days, however, the intention behind this marriage is pleasure AND then divorce</i>), and so <b>why the Shi'ah do condemn divorce and allow Mut'a which is beginning of divorce?</b>


I found also some Shi'ah sources speaking about how hateful divorce is in the sight of Allah: here are the sources for your review:

"It is a condition of divorce firstly that, at the time of divorce, the woman is clean of her monthly period. Secondly, there must be two just witnesses present when the contract of divorce is recited. Divorce is divinely detested. The Prophet of God tells us: "The most-detested permissible (thing) before God is divorce".

http://www.iranchamber.com/personalities/m..._principles.pdf

Although divorce is a lawful act, it is the most detested and worst of adeeds.
Imam Sadiq (AS) stated: ‘Get married but, do not divorce, because a divorce would tremble the ‘Arsh (empyrean) of Allah’.”

“lmäm Sädiq (AS) also stated: ‘Allah likes the house which is inhabited in the wake of marriage and dislikes the house which is abandoned in the wake of divorce. .There is nothing more detestable to Allah than a divorce’
Marriage is not like buying a pair of shoes and socks that whenever not liked one disposes the shoes and buys an (pair of shoes. Marriage is a spiritual covenant that two pet make in order to stay together like friends, sympathies au lovers till their death. It is based on these great hopes tb young girl leaves her parents and joins her husband.


A man makes efforts and works hard on the basis of s a divine covenant. He pays for his wedding and buys necessary goods for his new life and works for his comfort.


Marriage is not a lustful affair and a couple cannot destroy it for trivial excuses. Although divorce is lawful, it 1 seriously detested and people are recommended to avoid it much as possible.


Unfortunately, this very detestable act has become so common in Islamic countries and the foundations of family units have become so shaky that there is generally little faith in marriage any more.


Divorce is permitted but only in very exceptional and compelling circumstances.


“The Prophet (SA) of Allah stated: Jibril (Gabriel) advised me about women so much that I thought one should not divorce them except if they commit adultery’.”26’ (this is a Hadith from Prophet Muhammad!)

http://www.al-shia.com/html/eng/books/pr...s/014.html


How could these same sources allow Mut'a which is some kind of a <b>'divorced marriage' </b>?


Salam


Wael.

[Karbala]

Wasalam,


I have seen all those hadiths before and ill raise 2 reasons why they don't prove anything.


1. As a principle a hadith cannot abrogate a command given in the Quran. Muta has been allowed in the Quran ref: 4:24


2. The hadiths themselves conflict greatly (ill get to that now)


Firstly there are reports from certain Sahaba that Muta' was practiced during the time of the Prophet(saw) during the time of the First Caliph and was only banned during the time of the 2nd Caliph.


Sahih of Muslim: Book 008, Number 3250


Abu Nadra reported:


While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (Tamattu' of Hajj 1846 and Tamattu' with women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.


Sahih al Muslim: Book 008, Number 3249


Jabir b. 'Abdullah reported:


We contracted temporary marriage giving a handful of (tales or flour as a dower during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and durnig the time of Abu Bakr until 'Umar forbade it in the case of 'Amr b. Huraith.


wel_mel_2 you have quoted 9 ahadith.


6 hadiths refer to a common event in which it is claimed that the Prophet(saw) forbade it on the day of Khaibar along with Donkey meat. Interestingly Ibn Umar refers to the same event and doesn't mention the forbidding of muta'


Sahih al Muslim, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 526


Narrated Ibn Umar:


On the day of Khaiber, Allah's Apostle forbade the eating of garlic and the meat of donkeys.


The other 3 hadith come from Sabra al-Juhanni or Ibn Sabra. Interestingly the year Sabra mentions it was forbidden was the year 630AD during the day of victory. Notice already the discrepancy with the year Ali claimed which was 629AD during the conquest of Khaibar.


Sahih al-Muslim Book 008, Number 3260


Rabi' b. Sabra reported on the authority of his father that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) forbade on the Day of Victory to contract temporary marriage with women.


Now a common claim from Sunnis is that Mohammad(saw) forbade and allowed Muta' several times based on the necessities of the time and that he eventually forbade it forever. However if you look at the texts of when he forbade it during Khaibar and during the victory of Mecca both of them mention that muta' was forbidden <b>FOREVER</b> from that point onwards.


From the hadiths you quoted yourself:


Book 008, Number 3265:


Muhammad b. 'Ali narrated on the authority of his father 'Ali that Allah's Apostle (may


peace be upon him) on the Day of Khaibar prohibited <b>forever</b> the contracting of


temporary marriage and eating of the flesh of the domestic ass.


Book 008, Number 3262:


Sabra al-Juhanni reported on the authority of his father: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) prohibited the contracting of temporary marriage and said: Behold, it is forbidden <b>from this very day of yours to the Day of Resurrection</b>, and he who has given something (as a dower) should not take it


<b>Conclusion: There is a clear conflict in the Hadiths and cannot be relied upon to resolve the issue of the the forbidding of Muta'.</b>

[Karbala]

My question now to Karbala is that if Muta marriage is the marriage that is destined for divorce (because you can marry a girl for a couple of hours or days, however, the intention behind this marriage is pleasure AND then divorce), and so why the Shi'ah do condemn divorce and allow Mut'a which is beginning of divorce?

Simple answer. There is no such thing as divorce in Muta' marriage. Look up the true definition of divorce.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.


<b>'Karbala' </b>

“look up the <b>TRUE</b> definition of divorce"

I followed your advise:


<b>divorce</b>


• noun the <b>legal</b> dissolution of a marriage.



• verb 1 legally dissolve one's marriage with. 2 (divorce from) detach or dissociate (something) from.


AskOxford.Com


So what do you call the dissolution of Mut'a marriage? is it the <b>ILLEGAL</b> dissolution?

Muta has been allowed in the Quran ref: 4:24

Qur'an 4:24 does not say that "Mut'a is allowed" as you have claimed, plus this verse is reproduced within context and surrounding verses. You can read from <b>verses 19 up to 27 </b>and you will see that:


(1) A marriage contract must consist of more than an arrangement for satisfaction of lusts (Quran 4:24, 25, and 27);


(2) Quran 4:24 merely states that "<b>all others are lawful</b>," i.e. one may marry any partner to whom marriage is not otherwise prohibited in the Quran. It does not say that Mut'a is alright, and the verse's discussion of the dowery does not imply the legality of Mut'a but merely recites the general rule that the dowery contracted for, <b>cannot be reduced except by mutual agreement</b>.


Moreover, any argument based on Qura'n 4:24 fails to address the<b> fundamental incompatibility of Mut'a with Quranic criteria for divorce</b>. While Islam does not require OBJECTIVE proof of some fault such as "mental cruelty" or "adultery" as a condition for divorce, the Quran makes it clear that <b>there must be some "disagreement," "incompatibility" or "conflict" between the spouses.</b>


Qur'an 4:35


If ye fear a <b>BREACH BETWEEN THEM TWAIN</b>, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.


4:128


If a wife fears <b>CRUELTY OR DESERTION ON HER HUSBAND'S PART</b>, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do.


4:129


Ye are <b>NEVER ABLE TO BE FAIR AND JUST AS BETWEEN WOMEN</b>, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practice self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.


4:130


<b>BUT IF THEY DISAGREE (AND MUST PART)</b>, Allah will provide abundance for all from His all-reaching bounty: for Allah is He that careth for all and is Wise.


What I am trying to say is that, in Mut'a, <b>the marriage does not end due to disagreement between spouses as the Qur'an explained, but rather, because they have AGREED IN ADVANCE to end up the marriage!! </b>


So far I can see no straight forward authorization from the Qur'an that allows Mut'a marriage.


By the way, I did not want to comment over your statment of "<b>Now a common claim from Sunnis etc...." </b> because I don't consider myself to be <i>SUNNI</i> or any other name except the name which Allah has chosen for us, and that is MUSLIM.


Who is better in speech than one who calls to Allah, works righteousness, and says, 'I am of those who are <b>MUSLIMS</b> ?' NOT SUNNIS, NOT SHI'AH But Muslims.


Salam


Wael.