Polygyny Questionnaire for Brothers-NEED YOUR HELP!!!

[reepicheep]

<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: So here is the point, Islam offers the solution to Jimmy’s problem but because of the influence of his church, he chooses to commit THE REAL ADULTERY</b>


I'm curious to know why you use Jimmy Swaggart as an example. According to Jesus:


<b><i>'You have learned that they were told, "Do not commit adultery." But what I tell you is this: if a man looks on a woman with a lustful eye, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.' Matthew 5:27-28</i></b>


It is, of course, impossible to live up to this standard, so as a result all married Christians are guilty of adultery. No need for you to pick on Jimmy Swaggart, you can accuse any married Christian of adultery and I will agree with you. Allowing me to take 2 or 4 or 100 wives would not solve the problem of adultery. There will always be women I am not married to that I will look at with a lustful eye.


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<b>wel_mel_2 wrote: The question arise now is, do some Muslims commit the same sin? YESSSS… does Islam offers the solution? YESSSS, </b>


You are contradicting yourself. You claim that Islam offers the solution to adultery, yet you admit that Muslims still commit adultery. So, apparently, Islam does NOT offer the solution to adultery. Correct?


What about a muslim woman who wishes to have sex with more than one man? How is this situation handled under Islamic law?


How about muslim men who desire more than four wives? Is this allowed, according to Islamic law?

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


When I look into replies on this thread I say Sobhan Allah, I can clearly see the Muslim Ummah with its diverse personalities and approaches in response to FCH comment.


FCH what exactly is your definition of adultry?? I mean your because I can get a dictionary or other sites that define adultry according to the Nazarine belief. I m interested in finding out yours??


Jazaki Allah khairan poly for posting the links again the program is great Mash a Allah.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo ALikum.

I'm curious to know why you use Jimmy Swaggart as an example. According to Jesus:

The reason why I used Jimmy Swaggart as an example is his debate with Ahmed Deedat (Is the Bible God's word?) he said in the beginning of his talk to his audience "Mr. Ahmed Deedat told me before coming up on the stage that Muslims are allowed to marry up to 4 wives so I told him that Christianity allowed only one wife so I've to get the BEST from the first shot"


So I was shocked when I heard about him committing adultery which proves that his wife is not really the BEST, and that marrying another wife would have been better for him.

According to Jesus:
You have learned that they were told, "Do not commit adultery." But what I tell you is this: if a man looks on a woman with a lustful eye, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.' Matthew 5:27-28

Yes, but what punishment did he give for those who commit adultery in order to control and avoid that sin?

It is, of course, impossible to live up to this standard, so as a result all married Christians are guilty of adultery. No need for you to pick on Jimmy Swaggart, you can accuse any married Christian of adultery and I will agree with you. Allowing me to take 2 or 4 or 100 wives would not solve the problem of adultery. There will always be women I am not married to that I will look at with a lustful eye.

Naturally as soon as Islamic law is implemented, positive results will be inevitable. If Islamic Shariah is implemented in any part of the world, whether it is America or Europe, society will breathe easier. If capital punishment is implemented on those who committed adultery in America for example, you ask yourself, will the rate of adultery, incest, rape etc increase, decrease or remain the same? Islam is a practical law, he gives you first the solution of having another wife to prevent you from committing adultery, then it prescribe severe punishment for those who are still bending on disobeying God Almighty.

You are contradicting yourself. You claim that Islam offers the solution to adultery, yet you admit that Muslims still commit adultery. So, apparently, Islam does NOT offer the solution to adultery. Correct?

What about a muslim woman who wishes to have sex with more than one man? How is this situation handled under Islamic law?

Visit this link for your reference: IRF.NET

How about muslim men who desire more than four wives? Is this allowed, according to Islamic law?

No its not allowed.


I wonder why you have ignored the rest of my posts!!


Salam


Wael.

[reepicheep]

<b>Wel_mel_2 wrote: So I was shocked when I heard about him committing adultery </b>


According to the bible, all married Christians are guilty of adultery. So, you should hardly be "shocked" to discover that Jimmy Swaggart is guilty of adultery.


<b>Wel_Mel_2 wrote: Yes, but what punishment did he give for those who commit adultery in order to control and avoid that sin?</b>


According to the bible, the punishment for committing adultery or any other sin is eternal damnation.


<b>Wel_Mel_2: Naturally as soon as Islamic law is implemented, positive results will be inevitable. </b>


Well, if Canada implemented Islamic law, what would happen is that millions of hate crazed muslim fanatics would run around Canada, burying people up to their necks in dirts and killing them by smashing rocks into their faces. I don't consider this to be a "positive result". But if you so wish, you are certainly welcome to try to force your "solution" upon Canada.


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You claim that Islam is better than Christianity because it provides practical solutions to human weakness. For example, you say that any woman who takes more than one husband will be brutally executed in the name of Allah the Compassionate the Merciful. Muslims may consider this to be a practical solution, but Christians don't.

[Hadji]

According to the bible, the punishment for committing adultery or any other sin is eternal damnation.

I found this in the Old Testament:


Deuteronomy 22:22


"If a man is discovered committing adultery, both he and the woman must die. In this way, you will purge Israel of such evil."


Very interesting verse.


Now, I'm pretty sure that the verse isn't talking about a lustful eye. This verse is talking about sexual intercourse. The punishment of such an action is one that occurs not only in the afterlife, but also in the world that we are living now.


These punishments are what make up a religion. For God wish to get rid of evil in this life as well.


Now, let us examine the verse that you have presented us with:

'You have learned that they were told, "Do not commit adultery." But what I tell you is this: if a man looks on a woman with a lustful eye, he has already committed adultery with her in his heart.' Matthew 5:27-28

Apparently, there are several conclusions that we can come up with when examining the verse.


When we put this verse and the verse from the Old Testament together, we come to the conclusion that both those who have literally committed adultery, and those who have committed adultery with their eyes, are to be put to death.


Yet, let's back track to Matthew 5:17:


"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law of the Prophets: I have come to fulfill them."


Apparently, Jesus is going to fulfill the Law of the Prophets. He does that in Matthew 5:29, the verse that you decided not to include since Muslims can't understand the Bible:


"If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown in hell."


Ah, now, because of this verse, we can be certain that Jesus is interested in purging Israel of evil.

Well, if Canada implemented Islamic law, what would happen is that millions of hate crazed muslim fanatics would run around Canada,

I can't really say that I agree, but I figure that if the teachings of Jesus were implemented in Canada, then everybody would be stumbling around in eye patches.


Of course, you can always say that Jesus didn't mean what he said. He just said it to make people feel that there is no salvation except by accepting him.


Unfortunately, there are two errors to that logic. The first one is that by believing that, you must also believe that Jesus has abolished the law... and he says that he didn't. The second one is that you need to believe that God, the "Father", Jesus, Paul, Constantine, or whoever else ran the Nicean Coucil, is <b>not</b> interested purging Israel of evil.


Also, about smashing rocks into the faces of those who commit adultery. This doesn't apply to anyone who commits adultery. It only applies to those that are <b>married</b> and commit adultery.


Those that commit adultery deserve the following:


Al Noor 2-4: "2) The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.


3) The adulterer shall not marry save an adulteress or an idolatress, and the adulteress none shall marry save an adulterer or an idolater. All that is forbidden unto believers.


4) And those who accuse honourable women but bring not four witnesses, scourge them (with) eighty stripes and never (afterward) accept their testimony -- They indeed are evil doers--"


I also suggest some further reading in the same chapter since the verses that come afterwards are somewhat detailed.


So yes, if someone who is married gets caught <b>by four people</b> in the act of having sexual relations with someone else... then yes, he/she should be stoned to death. Anyways, I really doubt that many people enjoy having sex in the streets, so it's pretty hard to get caught by four people. Of course, he/she could always admit to have committed adultery, thus, receiving the punishment in this life, but being cleansed for the next.


Anyways, before any more accusations against Islam, please provide evidences from our texts. Thanks.

[reepicheep]

<b>Hadji wrote: Now, I'm pretty sure that the verse isn't talking about a lustful eye. This verse is talking about sexual intercourse. The punishment of such an action is one that occurs not only in the afterlife, but also in the world that we are living now. </b>


Well, let's see if Jesus agrees with you:


<b><i>At daybreak He appeared again in the temple, and all the people gathered round him. He had taken his seat and was engaged in teaching them when the doctors of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught committing adultery. Making her stand out in the middle they said to him, 'Master, this woman was caught in the very act of adultery. In the Law Moses has laid down that such women are to be stoned. What do you say about it?' They put the question as a test, hoping to frame a charge against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground. When they continued to press their question he sat up straight and said, 'That one of you who is faultless shall throw the first stone.' Then once again he bent down and wrote on the ground. When they heard what he said, one by one they went away, the eldest first; and Jesus was left alone, with the woman still standing there. Jesus again sat up and said to the woman, 'Where are they? Has no one condemned you?' She answered, 'No one, sir.' Jesus said, 'Nor do I condemn you. You may go; do not sin again.'</i></b>


John 8:1-11, New English version


<b>Hadji wrote: Anyways, before any more accusations against Islam, please provide evidences from our texts. Thanks.</b>


Which of my "accusations" is false?

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Is there any hope that Hope FC replies to my question, strange enough she and Fisher of Men are not around.

[Hadji]

John 8:1-11


My English Standard Version and New Living Translation both shout out:


"The earliest manuscripts do not include John 7:53-8:11."


Any thoughts on this?

Which of my "accusations" is false?

Well... this:

Well, if Canada implemented Islamic law, what would happen is that millions of hate crazed muslim fanatics would run around Canada, burying people up to their necks in dirts and killing them by smashing rocks into their faces.

I'm sure we'll both agree that it isn't much of an accusation since it isn't something that you can prove. Once again, you need to strengthen your assumptions with evidence.

[reepicheep]

<b>Hadji wrote: Of course, he/she could always admit to have committed adultery, thus, receiving the punishment in this life, </b>


All married Christians admit that they are guilty of committing adultery. But, you say that any person who admits to committing adultery is guilty of a crime punishable by death and must be buried up to their necks in dirt and killed by smashing rocks into their faces. Therefore, you believe that all married Christians must be buried up to their necks in dirt and killed by having rocks smashed into their faces.


Correct?

[reepicheep]

<b>Hadji wrote: "The earliest manuscripts do not include John 7:53-8:11." Any thoughts on this?</b>


You are correct. The earliest manuscripts of the Gospel of John do not contain this passage. For the first few centuries after the death of Christ, this story was circulated as a separate tradition (in both oral and written form). In later centuries, copyists tried inserting this passage in various places in the gospels including here, at the end of the Gospel of John, or after Luke 21:38.


Even though the passage was possibly (some scholars would say probably) not written by John, it logically fits into its current place (John 7:53-8:11) so that is where most bibles put it. But I suppose it could also be removed from John and made into a short book of its own.


Biblical scholars use the term "pericope" to refer to short manuscripts such as this one. And this particular pericope is known as the "Pericope Adulterae".


Pericope Adulterae