Jospeph and Mary

[Faith Hope Charity]

To the Sacred Heart of Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

Like Catholics do since when?

Always have. Always will. It's dogma.

Honestly FHC, I feel sometimes you make up your own Catholisim and pass it around, unless the Catholics are alot more un-united than I thought. As far as we were taught, they always said it was quite possible Mary and Joseph HAD other children and possible Jesus had half sisters and brothers. ALthough they always made the point that it wasnt really important to faith weather they did or not.

Forget about what I (or anyone else for that matter) throw at you & just read the Catechism of the Catholic Church for official doctrines. I always try to paraphrase from it. If I ever misrepresent The Faith, believe me, it's unintentional.

I never heard about perpetual verginity before.

That's the reason why so many Catholics are leaving the Church. They're misinformed. Our Lady is always referred to as "Ever-Virgin" during Mass. Did you ever attend?

I dont believe Mary and Joseph were married, but just our of curiosity, why would he be interested in marriage without children or intamacy? Even Prophets were desirous of Children, and he is not better or more righteous than a Prophet. Why marriage at all then?

Marriage is a vocation. A vocation is a pathway to Heaven. I like the way one theologian put it... "if St Joseph & the Blessed Virgin Mary were to have sexual intercourse, it'll be like chewing gum." In other words... a lower good. They were called to a unique degree of chastity in their marriage. Today in the Catholic Church, we have celibate religious orders that follow their example.


St Joseph is the foster father of Jesus Christ. He may have been a widow when he married Mother Mary & therefore had children from a previous marriage (the Church has never infallibly taught that though). What she does teach infallibly is the perpetual virginity of Our Lady (CCC 499-507 - http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm) which makes it impossible for Our Lord to have half brothers/sisters.

That's a bit childish, not to mention rude.

I thought it was a good call (the principle of the matter not the joke).

FHC, I need to alert you that in case you are unable to maintain a respectable attitude towards members, either Muslims or non muslims, Allah and also our beloved Messenger prayer and peace be upon him, I would have to say you need to take a break and re collect yourself. [b]Pls note the manner you use while talking to others. [/b]

I don't mean any disrespect, Muslimah, but I've copped a lot of flak about my beliefs in the past months & I don't recall ever complaining, so I don't see the harm in me using a bit of humour to put a point across. Anyways, I'm sorry, I didn't mean any harm by it - you should know me by now! If you'd like me to stop posting, I'd have no problem with that.


God bless you all.

[SisterJennifer]

Actually I attended mass daily for quite a number of year.

"We ask the blessed Mary, ever virgin, all the angels and saints, and you my brothers and sisters to pray for me to the Lord our god."

astagfirallah


My opinion, as somebody who has left the catholic church, is not that people leave because of misinformation, but people leave because of the undeniable shirk that has penetrated and saturated every aspect of their worship. I know FHC wont agree but the above quote is proof of that. Perpetual virginity is a minor issue compared to the reast of it isnt it?


As far as marriage without sex to acheive a higher moral ground, well I guess the effects are easily seen in the high numbers of sexual abuse and homosexual events going on with unmarried preists.


My opinion is that much of what the church does defies not only logic, but our very nature. So if people leave, its not much of a surprise, they are only being true to their inner selves.


May Allah guide us and forgive us.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


FHC, I never asked you, or wanted u to stop posting, just need to ensure maintaining respectable attitude. Being on a Muslim board, do you expect members to agree with christian belief??? How about us here on this board when we have to put up with non muslims manners in some cases? Any way matter is closed, let us get back to our discussions.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

"if St Joseph & the Blessed Virgin Mary were to have <b>sexual intercourse</b>, it'll be like chewing gum." In other words... <b>a lower good</b>. They were called to a unique degree of <b>chastity in their marriage</b>. Today in the Catholic Church, we have celibate religious orders that follow their example.

INDEEEEEEEEEEEED :glare:


But what makes sexual intercourse between husbands and wives "a lower good" ?


<b>Like other Roman Catholic priests, Father Roger has taken vows of poverty, obedience and celibacy
to stay pure and focused on God. His parishioners trust Roger, who has known since grade school that he wanted to devote his life to the church. But he’s afraid if they knew the truth about him he would lose that sacred trust. </b>

“My ministry will not be able to continue if people knew that <b>I was HIV-positive</b>,” says Roger, <b>who is gay </b> and has broken his vows of celibacy.

<b>Father Roger is not the only HIV-positive priest. He estimates that over the course of his ministry, he has known 15 to 20 priests who have contracted HIV through homosexual relations. Many have died. </b>



ABC NEWS.


My point is this, abstaining from sexual intercourse is <b>NOT</b> Necessarily going to make a person superior or more chaste than other human beings, and so your point is just meaningless FHC, because your spiritual leaders whom you consider to be chaste just because they are not married, <b>are not to be trusted as we have seen in the case of FATHER Roger.</b>


I hope that make sense (<b>of course not to you FHC</b>) :D


Salam


Wael.

[Hadji]

Ooh! Just a side note.


I don't think that priests are gay or have a tendency to be gay or anything like that. I always believed that they would have sexual intercourse with whoever is nearby... and in most cases, it was little boys.


Err... yeaah...

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Ooh! Just a side note.


I don't think that priests are gay or have a tendency to be gay or anything like that. I always believed that they would have sexual intercourse with whoever is nearby... and in most cases, it was little boys.


Err... yeaah...

According to The Catholic World News. , they’ve got a problem about <b>‘gay priests’. </b>

<b>AIDS has quietly caused the deaths of hundreds of Roman Catholic priests in the United States</b> although other causes may be listed on some of their death certificates, the Kansas City Star reported today. The newspaper said its examination of death certificates and interviews with experts indicates several hundred priests have died of AIDS-related illnesses since the mid-1980s. The death rate of priests from AIDS is at least four times that of the general population, the newspaper said. Kansas City Bishop Raymond Boland says the AIDS deaths show that priests are human.

Of course I am not saying that homosexuality is encouraged in Catholicism or the Bible, but this is just the normal result when you go against the nature and abstaining from marriage for no good reason.


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory to God, peace on earth, goodwill to all.

Actually I attended mass daily for quite a number of year.

A sense of joy just filled my heart :)

My opinion, as somebody who has left the catholic church, is not that people leave because of misinformation, but people leave because of the undeniable shirk that has penetrated and saturated every aspect of their worship.

Sis, did you form that opinion based on the "dua" Catholics make during Mass? What's the name of your former parish & priest? I'd actually like to contact them.

I know FHC wont agree but the above quote is proof of that.

You can say that again & again & again & again & again & again & again!!!!!!!

As far as marriage without sex to acheive a higher moral ground, well I guess the effects are easily seen in the high numbers of sexual abuse and homosexual events going on with unmarried preists.

I guess one in every twelve priests is going to betray Our Lord. But I don't intend on leaving Christ's Church because of Judas... I'm staying put permanently because of St Peter.

My opinion is that much of what the church does defies not only logic, but our very nature. So if people leave, its not much of a surprise, they are only being true to their inner selves.

Sis, if I believed you left the Church because you disagreed with what it stands for then I'd accept your decision & not dwell on it. But since I believe that you dispise the Church for what it's not, I resent your decision & am saddened by it. Having said that... for what it's worth... I don't think any less of you nor do I wish evil upon you. May God bless you & draw you closer to Him in any way He desires.

May Allah guide us and forgive us.

Amen.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory to God, peace on earth, goodwill to all.

FHC, I never asked you, or wanted u to stop posting, just need to ensure maintaining respectable attitude. Being on a Muslim board, do you expect members to agree with christian belief??? How about us here on this board when we have to put up with non muslims manners in some cases? Any way matter is closed, let us get back to our discussions.

Fair enough. I'll try to bite my tongue. I don't expect us to agree with each other's doctrines, however, I'd like the forum rules to apply both ways... sometimes they favor Muslims, but being an Islamic board, I guess that's just the cross I have to carry. I'll try to bear it with less attitute from now on. Sorry & thanks!

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom FHC

. I'll try to bite my tongue.


You dont really have to.


I'd like the forum rules to apply both ways... sometimes they favor Muslims, but being an Islamic board,


I think you are not being fair on this serious accusation.

Try to check around. In some cases, Muslims were banned for a certain number of days for being disrespectful to non muslims. Once my co admin's post was brutally edited. I dont have to explain this to u, though, but just be objective. Not because we refuse disrespectful manner of discussion, you start saying o Muslims have leeway. Well. BTW do you have any idea where fisher of men, he/she hasnt been on for a while, I mean posting, he/she visits but silently.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.


Now we have gone so far away from the original topic of this thread :conf06: welcome back FHC :wavey: , are you back yet from Lebanon?

BTW do you have any idea where fisher of men, he/she hasnt been on for a while, I mean posting, he/she visits but silently.

I was actually wondering if FHC have warned FOM not to post anymore because of me... is it true FHC?


Salam


Wael.