Jesus and Jonah

[AlShamms]

Peace....


Wael, again you're correct. Genesis 1:1 is very clear...that is what the Bible calls "milk". However let's take it a step further and get into the "meat".


Genesis 1:2 says "....and the Spirit of God moved.....". So, in verse one you have God...in verse two you have the Spirit of God.


Genesis 1:3 says "And God said"....which means he spoke his word.


So, in the first three verses you have 1. God 2. Spirit of God 3. Word of God.


Let us now turn our Bible to the book of the Apostle John. John who's book speaks of the divinity of Christ said about him:


(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


(John 1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


So that same word that was in the beginning with God became flesh.....<b>THAT </b>is what's considered a deep thing of God.


And yeah, I've been known to be funny at times


Shamms

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Peace....


Wael, again you're correct. Genesis 1:1 is very clear...that is what the Bible calls "milk". However let's take it a step further and get into the "meat".


Genesis 1:2 says "....and the Spirit of God moved.....". So, in verse one you have God...in verse two you have the Spirit of God.


Genesis 1:3 says "And God said"....which means he spoke his word.


So, in the first three verses you have 1. God 2. Spirit of God 3. Word of God.


Let us now turn our Bible to the book of the Apostle John. John who's book speaks of the divinity of Christ said about him:


(John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


(John 1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


So that same word that was in the beginning with God became flesh.....<b>THAT </b>is what's considered a deep thing of God.


And yeah, I've been known to be funny at times


Shamms

You are turning the topic into the Trinity and Divinity of Jesus which were discussed here several times with Curious Christian and FHC. So you can easily search this topic on our forums and you will Insh a Allah get the answer.


Now, I do agree that the Bible, in many places is <b>ambiguous</b>, and there are many verses that are open for more than one interpretation, however, <b>the sign of Jonah is not of that kind, it is not that complicated</b>.


I really don’t want to argue over the same topic again and again, but until now you have not come up with any logical explanation to what you are claiming.


Was Jesus really <b>like</b> Jonah? <b>NO</b>, he was <b>dead</b> and Jonah was <b>alive</b>, and you can never say in any language, that both things mean the same.


Was Jesus really found in his grave for <b>three days and three nights as he said</b>? <b>NO</b> he stayed for <b>2 nights and one day</b>, or according to your own theory, <b>3 days and 2 nights</b>. And in no way, <b>3 and 2 are same as 3 and 3.</b>


I guess I am done with this topic unless other Christians want to add something “<i>new</i>”


Salam


Wael.

[AlShamms]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.


You are turning the topic into the Trinity and Divinity of Jesus which were discussed here several times with Curious Christian and FHC. So you can easily search this topic on our forums and you will Insh a Allah get the answer.

Peace.....


I'm not turning the topic to anything. You gave an example of something you feel is very simple and easy to understand. And I gave an example of a "deep thing of God".

Now, I do agree that the Bible, in many places is <b>ambiguous</b>, and there are many verses that are open for more than one interpretation, however, <b>the sign of Jonah is not of that kind, it is not that complicated</b>.


I really don’t want to argue over the same topic again and again, but until now you have not come up with any logical explanation to what you are claiming.

The <b>story</b> of Jonah is not complicated at all I agree. What the story foretells is something totally different. Like I said, because you don't understand Biblical prophecy, you cannot see how it applies to Christ. You're constantly trying to reason out and logically deduce a "deep thing of God" and I told you before, that's something that cannot be done with the natural mind:


(Romans 8:5-9)


(5) For the ones that are according to flesh mind the things of the flesh. And the ones according to Spirit mind the things of the Spirit.


(6) For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace;


(7) because the mind of the flesh is enmity towards God; for it is not being subjected to the Law of God, for neither can it be.


(8) And those being in the flesh are not able to please God.


(9) But you are not in flesh, but in Spirit, since the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone has not the Spirit of Christ, this one is not His.


Shamms

[Hadji]

Interesting post Shamms. This leads me to asking who are the ones that have the Spirit of God in them? Are the Christians the only people that have the Spirit dwelling within them? Can a non-Christian understand the Bible?


I think that you and Wael are having a hard time understanding one another because you come from different backgrounds. In Islam, the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic so that the Pagan society around Mohammed (pbuh) could understand it:


12:2 - Lo! We have it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand.


I never thought that Christianity was something that you first chose to believe in, then you'd experience the signs. It's suppose to work the other way around, right?

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Interesting post Shamms. This leads me to asking who are the ones that have the Spirit of God in them? Are the Christians the only people that have the Spirit dwelling within them? Can a non-Christian understand the Bible?


I think that you and Wael are having a hard time understanding one another because you come from different backgrounds. In Islam, the Qur'an was revealed in Arabic so that the Pagan society around Mohammed (pbuh) could understand it:


12:2 - Lo! We have it, a Lecture in Arabic, that ye may understand.


I never thought that Christianity was something that you first chose to believe in, then you'd experience the signs. It's suppose to work the other way around, right?

I can see your post more interesting Hadji… :)


I’ve been asking same or similar questions to Christians, and believe me in more than 5 years; no one was able to give me straight forward answer. If we are <b>NOT</b> to understand God’s “<b>deep things</b>” unless we are blessed with this gift called <i>holy ghost</i>, then why on earth shall we be condemned for not being Christians? This gift is to be <b>given</b> only to selective people, and yet, those who were not <b>chosen</b>, according to Christians will be thrown in hell. (<i>and we are supposed to believe in that</i>??).


Shamms, I understood the prophecy perfectly by God’s given gift called <b>the intellect</b>, in fact, it is you who can’t really comprehend that simple saying of Jesus <b>which was not fulfilled</b>, and my prove is that you cannot answer my questions about “dead or alive” or the “time factor”. All your previous comments were not inspired by the holy ghost Shamms, it was your own interpretation and internet searching to get some answers.


Another prove is that I do understand some prophecies from the Old Testament the same way you as a Christian understood it, and we may not argue at all about them. <b>So are you telling me that the holy ghost is sometimes IN ME, and some other times it is deceiving me? </b>


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Glory to God, peace on earth, goodwill to all.


Salam Wael :peace:


I briefly skimmed through all the posts, however, due to time constraints (I'm still on vacation), I'll only be able to provide a quick answer to your original question & of course it's from a Catholic Christian perspective (my theology teacher touched on this topic not so long ago) :)

Now I am asking, <b>how many days and how many nights did he stay in the tomb?</b>


-------------------------------------------------



RIGHT… they are only <b>TWO NIGHTS and A DAY</b>. but what the prophecy says? THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS.


Now I am asking another simple question, <b>are 3 and 3 is same as 2 and 1?</b> Of course there is something wrong here and every Christian should re arrange his thoughts and figure out what went wrong with their scriptures.


It is either Jesus was lying or fooling the Jews by the words he uttered (<b>we Muslims don't believe that he is a lair</b>), or that the books that you are reading have got <b>serious problem</b>.

The "three days" aren't reckoned the way we count days (ie three 24 hour periods). The term "three days" in Biblical usage has the word "day" referring to a period of light or a period of dark.


When Our Lord died the sun was blackened (that's one day).


Then he was placed in the tomb on the Friday (while it was still dark) then Saturday (daytime) came (that's another day).


Then Saturday night came (that's another day).


By dawn on Sunday Our Lord was raised - Hence He rose on the Sunday.


St. Peter tells us that during the "3 days" Our Lord "preached to the souls in prison" (ie Abraham's bosom).

We ask Allah, the Almighty God to accept our good deeds and intentions for writing this article, and forgive us if any of what we have said was wrong. Ameen.

May Christ have mercy on us all, Wael.


Ramadan Karem :)


<b><i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i></b>

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Salam Wael

Peace FHC and great to see you again, don't you guys have internet in Lebanon? :D

I briefly skimmed through all the posts, however, due to time constraints (I'm still on vacation), I'll only be able to provide a quick answer to your original question & of course it's from a Catholic Christian perspective (my theology teacher touched on this topic not so long ago)

I am very glad that I am about to hear "<i>The Catholic version</i>" of interpretation regarding my topic.

The "three days" aren't reckoned the way we count days (ie three 24 hour periods). The term "three days" in Biblical usage has the word "day" referring to a period of light or a period of dark.

This is what we've already established from Shamms' answer, that part of the day was actually counted as one whole day, which is wrong anyway according to me and the biblical definition that I've provided rearlier for the word DAY used by God and Jesus. However, if we accepted this theory, <b>there will be one night missing still</b>. please try to re read my posts if you got sometimes.

When Our Lord died the sun was blackened (that's one day).

That day <b>should not be counted</b>, because according to Jesus, <b>the 3 days and 3 nights should be IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH and not outside.</b> So according to your explanation, there will be one day missing here, therefore, the prophecy remained unfulfilled.

Then he was placed in the tomb on the Friday (while it was still dark) then Saturday (daytime) came (that's another day).
Then Saturday night came (that's another day).

FHC, what happened to your brain in Lebanon? :D Saturday <b>NIGHT</b> can never be counted as DAY. God in the Bible said that the <b>DARKNESS is called NIGHT, and the LIGHT is called DAY</b>. So Saturday <b>NIGHT, it is only ONE NIGHT </b> because as you know, <b>during night, there is no LIGHT. </b>

By dawn on Sunday Our Lord was raised - Hence He rose on the Sunday.

You have tried your best to explain about the 3 days, and as I expected, the catholic version is totally different from Shamms' version. However, you were trying hard to count <b>the 3 days but you have ignored the 3 nights totally.</b> So even if your explanation was correct, the question remain the same, <b>WHERE ARE THE 3 NIGHTS </b> that Jesus was talking about? Please don't try to convince me that one day is also counted as one night.


However, due to your time limitation, your were not able to comment on the most important part of that prophecy, and that is Jesus being dead in his tomb, and Jonah being alive in the belly of the whale, remember that the prophecy clearly states, that Jesus will be AS JONAH WAS for this period of time, but you are telling me the exact opposite. So take your time and don't forget to buy for me some Lebanese sweets :D

May Christ have mercy on us all, Wael.

May the God of Christ have mercy on Christ and all of us.


Salam and Ramadan Kareem to you too.


Wael.

[umm Zachariah]

Bismillah


Assalamu alaikum


Brother Wel_Mel_2, I do find this that you wrote interesting and it did put my mind in action,


***I’ve been asking same or similar questions to Christians, and believe me in more than 5 years; no one was able to give me straight forward answer. If we are NOT to understand God’s “deep things” unless we are blessed with this gift called holy ghost, then why on earth shall we be condemned for not being Christians? This gift is to be given only to selective people, and yet, those who were not chosen, according to Christians will be thrown in hell. (and we are supposed to believe in that??).***


(Why can't I quote?! :banghead: :conf06: )


That is truly a very LOGICAL question to raise, since to my knowledge the Christian message is for everyone - according to Christian teachings.


ws

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


FHC


Hold on, sorry if again I sounded stupid, but according to this explanation, there was no need to mention 3 nights?? why was the nights mentioned here??? It would have sufficed for Eassa salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam to say 3 days - that would include 24 hours rather than making the statement ambigous by saying 3 days and 3 nights when he meant 3 time periods...

The "three days" aren't reckoned the way we count days (ie three 24 hour periods). The term "three days" in Biblical usage has the word "day" referring to a period of light or a period of dark.


<b><i>Faith Hope Charity Openness Tolerance Equality</i></b>

Shamms, what wael meant is that I only need to read the verse to be able to understand what he is refering to. And by the way, I never give the reply that u fail to understand Quran because u dont read it in its native language. Actually, how did thousands, millions of non Arabic speakers embrace islam after reading translations of the meanings????

[Muslimah]

Bismillah

Bismillah


Assalamu alaikum


(Why can't I quote?! :banghead: :conf06: )


That is truly a very LOGICAL question to raise, since to my knowledge the Christian message is for everyone - according to Christian teachings.


ws

May be you forget to hit the quote button :wavey: :sleep2: :)