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05-16-2007, 04:14 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2007, 04:30 AM by wel_mel_2.)
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:OK wel_mel_2 it doesn't look like we are going to agree. I provided you with some Ayats of Quran and Hadith supporting my view. I wish you would do the same as well.
The gates and walls of the mosque of the Prophet (saw) and al-Baqee are holy because they enclose the remains of the most sublime of humans to have ever lived. Those walls are the closest I will ever physically get to my Prophet(saw) and his Holy Ahlulbayt. All I wanted to do is show my Prophet (saw) and his holy Family my respect and love. Why is that so wrong?
You see brother, regarding Prophet Yusuf pbuh, I too do not mind to bow down to my parents and even kiss their feets out of respect, but after they die, am never going to prostrate to their graves, but I will always keep them in my Du’a.
Plus, the Prophet pbuh taught us how to visit the grave yards, he used to say those words only.
<b>Peace be upon you, inmates of the abodes of the believers and the Muslims, and Allah willing, we will follow you. I pray to Allah for well-being for ourselves and for you. </b>
He did not stop by a particular grave to offer supplication, he did not kiss any of the graves of his wives or daughter although he respected and loved them alot… but his Du’a was for all the believers in general, and so in my humble opinion, we should follow his way and only his way.
I still insist that there is nothing holy about some walls were built hundreds of years after the demise of these great human beings. And I still insist that following their footsteps is the greatest way to show them respect and reverence.
Brother I hope that I did not offend you in anyway.
Salam
Wael.
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05-16-2007, 07:22 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-16-2007, 10:36 AM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah
as salam alykom Karbala
You must be saying to yourself now those people have stones in their chests rather than hearts filled with no less love and emotions towards our beloved Messenger, teacher, leader, commander Mohamed salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam. Matter of fact, on the personal level, many at times I wish that I was even a servant in his house, serving him water for Wodu, and doing other chores. Many times I ponder upon his life and how he went for days without food, and months only with water and dates. When I enter into the boundaries of Medina, mixed emotions fill my heart that words cannt describe, O here he lived, here he built the first masjed... and and and. I feel at times that I want to contain all of Medina into my eyes, I feel that I cannt just follow and embrace everything there. Just thinking that I m stepping in the same spots he did step..
We are no less emtional about all of them. you know what Karbala, we are no less respectful and loving to Ali than you are. I mean he gave him the comfort of his eye, he picked him as husband to his beloved daughter. He replaced him when he was only 11 and jeopardised his life. He is a companion after all, may Allah be pleased with all the companions who shouldered the burden of first dawa to give us this gift on a silver plate without any effort on our side.
But we might differ on how to interpret the Ayah you quoted. Kissing doors is certainly not the Mawada he asked for to his household. But it is totally a different comprehensive approach. If u meet one of them, they are many and living among us, some of them reveal themselves others dont. Just show curtosy, establish the relation. All we fear brother is to be dragged into shirkish acts that we dont want to or even intend to certainly. None of us wish this, because this is not why Allah The One Sent His final Messenger. We really need so much to hold a firm grip to aspects of Tawheed. I would like to add that we are no less loving to Ahullbayt, May be we love them more than you imagine Karbala. But at the same time, me personally I try hard not to let this love or anyother love overshadow the love of Allah in my heart. This is what we should be working on, it is a thin line and a trend that must be developed over time very carefuly.
Will come back with more later Insh aAllah.
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Bismillah
Regarding Yaqoub and the act of bowing, Karbala, u seem quite knowledgable and certainly are aware that at certain times those acts were ok, but not any more. Would u care to search about the hadeeth in this regard?????
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:bismillah:
Quote:Brother I hope that I did not offend you in anyway.
Quote:You must be saying to yourself now those people have stones in their chests rather than hearts filled with no less love and emotions towards our beloved Messenger
Muslimah and Wel_mel_2 I think you guys are great. In fact I think you guys deserve the title "Shia" more than I do. I do not doubt that you guys love AhlulBayt or Ali. I also understand why you don't like acts of kissing or touching because you are afraid of committing Shirk. I am not offended I love discussing with you guys. This whole kissing issue is personal. There are many Shia who dont kiss the gates of Kaaba or Masjid Nabawy. It isn't really a Deeni issue.
But you have to understand why other people would want to do it. You guys express your love differently. I express my love differently. There is nothing wrong with what you do and there is nothing wrong with what I do.
Calling something shirk is a huge accusation. You need evidence. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest kissing holy things is shirk.
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Quote:Bismillah
Regarding Yaqoub and the act of bowing, Karbala, u seem quite knowledgable and certainly are aware that at certain times those acts were ok, but not any more. Would u care to search about the hadeeth in this regard?????
I am NOT knowledgable. I just know how to use google and the indexes at the back of books.
You are right "Sajdah Tazeem" was allowed in the Shariah of Prophets before but the Prophet of Mercy (saw) once and for all finally made haram "Sajdah Tazeem" in which one places there hands knees feet and head on the ground infront of anything or anybody but Allah (swt) regardless of Niyyat.
Sajdah Tazeem is haram but not shirk. Sajdah Ibadah is haram and shirk because it also includes niyyat for someone other than Allah (swt).
I dont know of any hadiths that directly prohibit Sajdah Tazeem. I think you guys will have to help me with that. Ill try looking to see if I can find one.
:wasalam:
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Bismillah
as salam alykom Karbala,
Alright, now I got good news, matter of fact, just to confirm something, as I said in the beginning, on the personal level i never had such a close chance to discuss with a shia face to face. I mean talking to one is different from reading from varied sources.
Thus, taking things deeper and elaborate is all for the benefit for us, you and those who come to read.
Excellent news that u dont do those reverence expressions by virtue of a specially developed text. but rather a personal inclination. I m quite familiar with the companions fighting for example to receive the nails of the Messenger when he clipped them. However, and in no way I m trying to argue, such acts can really open gates for further unnecessary paths. You dont know what simple unlearnt people do in Maqams here in Egypt. I can hear u saying that is all i can get hold of from the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him. And i just want to stress, you said it is personal, but are these acts part of any teachings giving by shia scholars?? This is important for me to understand.
OO and on loving him and Ahul bayt. Sobhan Allah for this love instilled in our hearts and we never met them. I keep pondering on their lives. One of the situations, I know i m getting off topic, if Dan comes here i will be blamed. but any way, one of the situations that I always think of and easily brings tears to my eyes, when his daughter Zainab sent him her mother's necklace to redeem her husband who was among prisoners taken by Muslims after she joined her father in Medina and before Badr. He looked down and got her message. His eyes were filled with tears for he knows how much this necklace is dear to her heart. And asked the muslims to free him and if they wanted to return her her money. Ya Allah, what a family....
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Quote:And i just want to stress, you said it is personal, but are these acts part of any teachings giving by shia scholars?? This is important for me to understand.
You are right. These acts are personal. I have found no commandment or ritual in Islam quoted by Shia scholars to make these acts a part of relgion. They are not in Mafatih al-jinan which almost every Shia has in his/her house.
Concerning AhlulBayt.
Love for AhlulBayt isn't a choice it is necessary for every muslim according to Quran 42:23. This is the one thing the Prophet of Mercy (saw) asked in return for the toils of prophethood.
They are unique from others since they have been declared as purified by God or sinless.
<b> إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا </b>
33:33 Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the House! and to purify you a (thorough) purifying.
It isn't a matter of just love or admiration the Prophet of Mercy (saw) ordered us to follow them as they are part of the 2 Thaqalayn (weighty things).
Sahih Muslim
Book 031, Number 5920:
<b>but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. </b>
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...im/031.smt.html
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who is shia??what does mean that?it is a group of muslims?
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Go to post number 38 if you want a brief introudction to the word "Shia"
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Quote:who is shia??what does mean that?it is a group of muslims?
Dear Sarah
Assalamo alykom
I do`nt know if you find an answer to your question or not,but I want to tell you something Sarah,
in islam there`s no groups,it should be one and only one group.
Allah ordered us not to be devided or discordant nor split into factions.
(Holly Quran 42/13).
If this is happened,it is wrong.
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