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:bismillah:
Quote:Because the Prophet told us that women voice is part of her Awrah, and so she should not shout/cry loudly anywhere.
OK can you please provide me with a source?
Quote:In my humble opinion it is wrong, because the Prophet Muhammad pbuh never did such thing, and so i follow my prophet pbuh.
That is very bad reasoning. According to this no one should drive a car, own a TV, use the internet or use islamsms.com. i have never seen a scholar use this reasoning to declare something haram.
I will read Tafsir ibn Kathir and write another post. It would have been easier if YOU told me why you do not agree with my interpretation of the Ayats of Quran I presented. It seems pretty clear to me the word Shafa'a has been used several times. There are clear examples of Tawassul in the case of Prophet Mohammad (saw) and Prophet Jacob (as).
Maybe you should read Tafsir al-Mizan
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05-14-2007, 07:21 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-14-2007, 08:00 PM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah
as salam alykom
Alright Karbala, I m usually inclined towards using my mind (or more to say the ability of reasoning Allah Blessed mankind with). Actually mankind was blessed with this advantage which puts mankind on a higher rank than angels since we have also the ability to decide and make choices.
Now to start with, what is the purpose of worship in general?? To obey Allah, to pay gratitude to Allah, to come closer to Allah, to protect us against ourselves and shaytan (since even in the acts or worship and obedience we have to do what pleases Allah not ourselves, i.e if a woman likes to go out and attend Halaqa but she leaves her husband and children unattended, it is a no situation).
Thus, any act of worship reflects back on the worshiper in two or even multi forms. But at least the two evident is being closer to Allah, and feeling better because one is freed from any other influence but Allah's.
In light of the above, one must always gauge the impact of any act according to such criteria. What would I gain, how will I come closer to Allah?
Why do we go to Ka`aba at all? (I will focus first on this issue). Among others, because going for Haj is a must - so long a Muslim is capable - it is a Fard but a conditional one depending on the ability. As for Ummrah it is a Sunnah - following the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him that results into (according to hadeeth) expiation of sins, renewing the covenant with Allah, maintaining the relation with Allah, scrubbing the heart, ..etc. Because praying one Raka`a in Masjed Haram equals 100,000.
What do we do when we go there? We perform the act in way that follows the sunnah in the rituals, to be sticking to sunnah…
Besides each act of worship when u really ponder upon them and reflect, does have a logical meaning and impact on the human being as a person . For example and on the same theme:
Why do we strive to go to Masjed Nabawy and strive even more to attain the honor of praying in Rawda Sharifa? Because the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him said and stated and explained that the space located between his house and his pulpit is considered a Rawda of Jannah (prayer and peace be upon our beloved teacher and leader and Messenger ameen). And also as he explained that praying 1 Raka there equals a 1000 elsewhere. Why do we do our best to visit Masjed Qubaa and pray even two Rakaa because according to a hadeeth the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him told us that praying there two Rakaa one would attain the reward of performing Ummrah.
So how will kissing a modern constructed and renovated gate benefit u? Modern gates of Masjed Nabawy including that of Jebreel or others (built and renovated during the 20th century) - which in itself not more precious in the eyes of Allah than mankind.
Would u for instance kiss the Intercontinental hotel room door just because it is in Mecca? Unlike of course if it was in Sand Fransisco or anywhere else?? It is the same thing. This is a door and that is a door. How will kissing a gate allows you to strengthen your faith? Or allows you to attain Allah’s love as if u perform Nafawel in order to come closer to Allah.
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Quote:Would u for instance kiss the Intercontinental hotel room door just because it is in Mecca? Unlike of course if it was in Sand Fransisco or anywhere else?? It is the same thing. This is a door and that is a door. How will kissing a gate allows you to strengthen your faith? Or allows you to attain Allah’s love as if u perform Nafawel in order to come closer to Allah.
Salaams,
I follow and respect your reasoning, but I think you are not distinguishing between "unnecessary" and "haraam." What is haraam about kissing something as a sign of respect? I would agree that it is wrong to make something wajib that is not -- for instance if I were to say "Your hujj is not valid unless you kiss Hajr-e-Aswad." However, to my knowledge no one is doing this (please do correct me if I'm wrong). Since that is the case, what's the problem?
Karbala has made a very important point about following the Prophet's tradition: just because he didn't do something doesn't make it haraam for us. Haraam lies in making the impermissible permissible, and in adding to the din requirements which the Prophet did not himself establish.
wa salaam
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Bismillah
Khairan, if u have noticed, I didnt classify anything haram or makrouh. I m simply trying to use my mind. And u didnt answer the question, that is if u want to answer for Karbala. What is the benefit of kissing anything holy? Even the Quran, to respect Quran, is to learn how to recite properly, to apply in your life, to deeply understand, to work hard on learning it and applying it. A kiss, how does this express respect????????
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Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:That is very bad reasoning. According to this no one should drive a car, own a TV, use the internet or use islamsms.com. i have never seen a scholar use this reasoning to declare something haram.
I too did not mention that kissing the Qur’an is haram or halal, this is not my job. I only said that it is wrong in my opinion and I provided my reason, because I wanted to follow my prophet pbuh whose life was not hidden at all, and if he knew that kissing the Qur’an was necessary for the ummah, he would have done it many times so that we can follow his footsteps.
Look at what Omar Ibn el Khattab may Allah be pleased with him said regarding the black stone.
According to Sahih Bukhari, Volume 2, book of Hajj, chapter 56, H.No. 675. Umar (may Allah be pleased with him) said, "I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit nor harm. <b>Had I not seen the Prophet (pbuh) touching (and kissing) you, I would never have touched (and kissed) you"</b>.
So do you think that Omar (RA) ever kissed the door of the Kab’a or the Qur’an?
If TV and internet were invented during the Prophet pbuh, he would surely use them very well to serve his Deen.
What am trying to say brother, that these matters may mislead certain group of people, like how I saw during my Hajj, some people were kissing and touching the gate of a library which was originally the place where Prophet Muhammad was born!! Can you imagine? And so we should avoid these practices and stick to the sunnah of our beloved prophet pbuh.
Salam
Wael.
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Quote:A kiss, how does this express respect????????
Ritual is a form of language. A kiss is a symbol, a type of language, and it represents an act of respect for the same reason that the word "chair" represents a structure on which one can recline -- because the people who use this symbol believe it does.
As I said above, I agree that it is wrong to make these things wajib -- if the Prophet did not do them we have no basis for insisting that they are a part of Islam. However, there is no harm in these rituals so long as people do not try to do haraam things with them.
salaams
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05-15-2007, 03:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-15-2007, 03:11 PM by Khairan.)
double post
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Lets make one thing clear. Kissing holy objects is not Waajib or necessary nor is it Sunnah. If you were to look at shia books like Mafatih al-Jinan or Adab al-haramain you will not find kissing a part of any ritual recommended. Kissing the Quran or gates of Masjid nabawy is something personal. But it isn't wrong either simply because the Prophet (saW) never did it.
Quote:What is the benefit of kissing anything holy?
It sets an atmosphere of reverence. It shows the importance of the object kissed. It also allows an expression of holy connection with the object.
Reverence may be shown in many ways e.g. Kissing, touching, rubbing or bowing.
Here are a few examples.
<b>[shakir 12:100] And he raised his parents upon the throne and they fell down in prostration before him, </b>
Prophet Yusufs (as) brothers prostrated to him in reverence. But the Prophet did not object.
<b>Volume 7, Book 72, Number 750: </b>
Narrated Abu Juhaifa:
I came to the Prophet while he was inside a red leather tent, and I saw Bilal taking the remaining water of the ablution of the Prophet, and the people were taking of that water and rubbing it on their faces; and whoever could not get anything of it, would share the moisture of the hand of his companion (and then rub it on his face).
The sahaba were showing reverence to the water the Prophet used during wudu by rubbing it on themselves. Again the Prophet did not object.
Imam Malik ibn Anas used to kiss old buildings and remains of old foundations.
http://muslim-canada.org/malikischool.html
Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal was asked about touching and kissing the minbar of the Prophet for the blessing and about seeking the blessing by visiting the grave of the Prophet. He responded by saying: "This matter is not prohibited," as was narrated by ^Abdullah, the son of Imam Ahmad, in his book titled Al^Ilal wa Ma^rifat ur-Rijal.
There are many other examples with Sahaba and other early generation muslims showing reverence to holy things.
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Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
This is the problem when we call anything 'holy' !!! what makes the gates of the Propht's pbuh mosque which were built recently by the saudi govenrment 'holy' ?? what makes the walls of Al baqee 'holy'? what makes the golden door of the Ka'ba 'holy'? and what makes the hard cover of the Qur'an that you kiss 'holy'??
Salam
wael
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:bismillah:
OK wel_mel_2 it doesn't look like we are going to agree. I provided you with some Ayats of Quran and Hadith supporting my view. I wish you would do the same as well.
The gates and walls of the mosque of the Prophet (saw) and al-Baqee are holy because they enclose the remains of the most sublime of humans to have ever lived. Those walls are the closest I will ever physically get to my Prophet(saw) and his Holy Ahlulbayt. All I wanted to do is show my Prophet (saw) and his holy Family my respect and love. Why is that so wrong?
<b>قُل لَّا أَسْأَلُكُمْ عَلَيْهِ أَجْرًا إِلَّا الْمَوَدَّةَ فِي الْقُرْبَى </b>
42:23 Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives
:wasalam:
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