Ask a Shia

[Karbala]

:bismillah:


JazakumAllah Khair sister Muslimah for clarifying the issue about praying nawafil after Fajr and Asr. This is something I never heard about before.

Just to point out how shaytan worked hard on this issue, why dont they mourn Shuhadaa Auhud including Hamza? Hamza whom the Messenger salla Allah a`lyhee wa sallam sat next to crying?? I understand that Hussain's murder ws committed by so called Muslims. but martyrdom is martyrdom and the loss in Auhud was no less in magnitude and effect.

You are right Muslimah. In fact the Shia do mourn for Hamza. If you were to go to a Shia mosque on Shawwal 15th you will see a mourning ceremony held in honour of Sayyiduna Hamza and the martyrs of Ohod. Also if you visited Ohod while you were on Umrah you might have noticed many Shia gather at the grave and recite Ziyarah and mourn.


Ibn Taiymiyyah is a well known hater of Shia. His opinion doesn't count for much as far as I am concerned. Muslimah I am familiar with the Hadiths in Sahih Muslim regarding grieving. In fact here are the exact quotes:


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...im/001.smt.html

Book 001, Number 0186:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Burda b. Abu Musa that Abu Musa was afflicted with grave pain and he became unconscious and his head was in the lap of a lady of his household. One of the women of his household walled. He (Abu Musa) was unable (because of weakness) to say anything to her. But when he was a bit recovered he said: I have no concern with one with whom the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has no concern, <b>Verily the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has no concern with that woman who wails loudly, shaves her hair and tears (her garment in grief).</b>


Book 001, Number 0187:


It is narrated on the authority of Abu Burda that Abu Musa fell unconscious and his wife Umm Abdullah came there and wailed loudly. When he felt relief he said: Don't you know? -and narrated to her: Verily the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: <b>I have no concern with one who shaved her hair, lamented loudly and tore (her clothes in grief).</b>


Book 001, Number 0184:


It is narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. Mas'ud that the Holy Prophet observed: <b>He is not one of us (one among the Ummah of Islam) who beat the cheeks or tore the front opening of the shirt or uttered the slogans of (the days of) Jahiliya (ignorance). Ibn Numair and Abu Bakr said (instead of the word" au" (or) it is" wa" [and] the words are) and tore and uttered (the slogans) of Jahiliya without" alif".</b>

The first 2 hadiths Condemn women who Wail Loudly AND shaves her hair AND tears her garment. There is no Shia who does that.


The last Hadith according to Abu Bakr and Ibn Numair is "And tore AND uttered slogans of Jahiliyya without alif" Again I don't think any Shia would do that either.


What the Shia DO is mourn in mourning ceremonies, crying and reciting eulogies. Inshallah in my next post I will examine this further.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Karbala, touching the gates [b]for what reason[/b]???

Karbala, I really want to know the reason before I go on. This is better for me to ask u clarify rather than making assumptions and start talking myself. From there we can continue talking brother Insh a Allah. I mean what is the aim, purpose or grounds on which one would touch gates of Ka`ba, masjed nabawi or any similar thing.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

The first 2 hadiths Condemn women who Wail Loudly AND shaves her hair AND tears her garment. There is no Shia who does that.

I am sorry, but there are many Shi’a’ women who does that. I’ve seen them during Hajj, you can recoginze them immediately because they dress in black unlike other Muslim women who dress in white during Hajj. The shi’a women used to wail very loud infront of the Prophet Mosque in Madinah, they were even calling upon the dead of AL baqee’ by name (even shi'a men do the same).


Salam


Wael

[Karbala]

:wasalam:


:bismillah:

I am sorry, but there are many Shi’a’ women who does that.

So you saw women who according to the hadith:


1. Wail Loudly


2. Shave their head


3. Tear their garments


4. Shout slogans of Jahiliyya


I have never seen a Shia woman do all 4 of those things. Shia women wear white while they are in Ihram (I know since I have been on Hajj last year). After they are freed of the obligations of Ihram they may wear black if they wish.


Why it wrong for Shia women (and men) to cry in Masjid Nabawy? The calling out to dead people i assume is referring to Tawassul or Shafa'a (intercession), why do you think this is wrong?

I mean what is the aim, purpose or grounds on which one would touch gates of Ka`ba, masjed nabawi or any similar thing.

I personally touched and kissed baab e Jibraeel while I was in Masjid Nabawi. A Saudi Policeman stopped me and searched me. I never understood why?


When Shia kiss anything holy it is just a show of respect or reverence. Is kissing the Quran wrong? Then why would kissing the gates if Ka'aba or Masjid Nabawy be wrong?

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

I have never seen a Shia woman do all 4 of those things. Shia women wear white while they are in Ihram (I know since I have been on Hajj last year). After they are freed of the obligations of Ihram they may wear black if they wish.

I did not say that shi’a women were wailing during Ihram, plus Muslim women are free to wear any color during Ihram, this is not the problem. The main issue is that women should not raise their voice loudly anywhere, they should not cry and touch the walls of AL Baqee’ and calling upon the dead for help or for any other reason. The Prophet pbuh never commanded us to do such things and so we should follow his footsteps in everything that he said or did.

Why it wrong for Shia women (and men) to cry in Masjid Nabawy? The calling out to dead people i assume is referring to Tawassul or Shafa'a (intercession), why do you think this is wrong?

Becuse Prophet Muhammad pbuh forbade us to do so, if there was any kind of Tawassul commanded in Islam, then we should have call upon Muhammad pbuh instead of Fatima, Ali, or any other righteous companion (may Allah be pleased with all of them). In fact the Prophet told us not to make out of his grave a place of worship or celebration, that we should only send prayers and blessings upon him. That’s it, but if we need to ask for help, we ask of Allah alone, otherwise you will be falling into the trap of Shirk. may Allah keep us always on His straight path. I advise you to read more about Tawheed to understand clearly what am talking about.

Is kissing the Quran wrong? Then why would kissing the gates if Ka'aba or Masjid Nabawy be wrong?

The Qur'an was not revelead to be kissed my brother, It was sent down to be our guidline in our lives. i dont remember that Prophet Muhammad pbuh kissed the Qur'an ever. The only thing we should kiss or touch is the black stone, simply because our beloved Prophet pbuh did so, if kissing the door of the Ka’ba (or anything else) was necessary or beneficial for our Ummah, the Prophet pbuh would have done it himself.


Salam


Wael.

[Karbala]

:bismillah: :assalam:

Becuse Prophet Muhammad pbuh forbade us to do so, if there was any kind of Tawassul commanded in Islam, then we should have call upon Muhammad pbuh instead of Fatima, Ali, or any other righteous companion (may Allah be pleased with all of them). In fact the Prophet told us not to make out of his grave a place of worship or celebration, that we should only send prayers and blessings upon him. That’s it, but if we need to ask for help, we ask of Allah alone, otherwise you will be falling into the trap of Shirk. may Allah keep us always on His straight path. I advise you to read more about Tawheed to understand clearly what am talking about.

Please show me as to where the Prophet Mohammad (saw) forbade us from Tawassul.


I am surprised you associate Tawassul with Shirk. It is mentioned very clearly in the Quran.


A quick question. Is it Haram to ask a Muttaqi person or Shaikh or someone you love to pray for you? Is this Shirk? Tawassul is similar to this.


Tawassul comes from the Arabic وسل which according to the Hans Wehr Dictionary means to initiate, seek to gain access, beseech, entreat, use as a means.


Shafa'a شفاعة similarly is defined in the Hans Wehr Dictionary as intercession, to mediate, put in a good word, intervene.


It is a concept certainly mentioned in the Quran.


<b>يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ اتَّقُواْ اللّهَ وَابْتَغُواْ إِلَيهِ <span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%;">الْوَسِيلَةَ وَجَاهِدُواْ فِي سَبِيلِهِ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُفْلِحُونَ </span></b>


<b>5:35 O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper. </b>


<b>ذَا الَّذِي <span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%;">يَشْفَعُ عِنْدَهُ إِلاَّ بِإِذْنِهِ </span> </b>


<b>2:255 Who is there can intercede in His presence except as He permitteth?</b>


<b>يَوْمَئِذٍ لَّا تَنفَعُ <span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%;">الشَّفَاعَةُ إِلَّا مَنْ أَذِنَ لَهُ الرَّحْمَنُ وَرَضِيَ لَهُ قَوْلًا</span></b>


<b>20:109 On that Day shall no intercession avail except for those for whom permission has been granted by ((Allah)) Most Gracious and whose word is acceptable to Him.</b>


<b>وَكَم مِّن مَّلَكٍ فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ لَا تُغْنِي<span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%;"> شَفَاعَتُهُمْ شَيْئًا إِلَّا مِن بَعْدِ أَن يَأْذَنَ اللَّهُ لِمَن يَشَاء وَيَرْضَى</span></b>


53:26 How many-so-ever be the angels in the heavens, their intercession will avail nothing except after Allah has given leave for whom He pleases and that he is acceptable to Him.


<b>يَعْلَمُ مَا بَيْنَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَمَا خَلْفَهُمْ وَلَا<span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%;"> يَشْفَعُونَ إِلَّا لِمَنِ ارْتَضَى وَهُم مِّنْ خَشْيَتِهِ مُشْفِقُونَ </b> </span>


<b>21:28 He knows what is before them, and what is behind them, and they offer no intercession except for those who are acceptable, and they stand in awe and reverence of His (Glory). </b>


<b>وَلَا يَمْلِكُ الَّذِينَ يَدْعُونَ مِن دُونِهِ <span style="font-size:24pt;line-height:100%;">الشَّفَاعَةَ إِلَّا مَن شَهِدَ بِالْحَقِّ وَهُمْ يَعْلَمُونَ </b> </span>


<b>43:86 And those whom they invoke besides Allah have no power of intercession;- only he who bears witness to the Truth, and they know (him)</b>


Tawassul of the Prophet of Mercy (Saw) is mentioned:


<b>4:64 We sent not an apostle, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.</b>


Tawassul of the Prophet Jacob (as)


<b>12:97 They said: "O our father! ask for us forgiveness for our sins, for we were truly at fault."</b>


12:98 He said: "Soon will I ask my Lord for forgiveness for you: for he is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful


Do you still believe Tawassul or Shafa'a is Shirk?

[Karbala]

The main issue is that women should not raise their voice loudly anywhere, they should not cry

Why not?

The Qur'an was not revelead to be kissed my brother, It was sent down to be our guidline in our lives. i dont remember that Prophet Muhammad pbuh kissed the Qur'an ever. The only thing we should kiss or touch is the black stone, simply because our beloved Prophet pbuh did so, if kissing the door of the Ka’ba (or anything else) was necessary or beneficial for our Ummah, the Prophet pbuh would have done it himself.

I agree the Quran was revealed for Guidance. This wasn't my question, my question was, is it wrong? Is it haram? I don't think so.


Kissing the door of Ka'aba or anything else may or may not be beneficial. That isn't the issue. Again the question is it haram? Again I don't think it is.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


THus Insh a Allah I will look for two things, rulings on visiting graves, I dont want to give u what i already know Alhamdulelah regarding the renewal of griefs and warnings against standing long on a grave. And also will try to walk thru rational thinking of whether or not kissing K`aba gates is Halal or not.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.


I guess you need to read Tafsir ibn Kathir on the Ayahs that you have provided.


Tafsir.Com


Salam


Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Why not?

Because the Prophet told us that women voice is part of her Awrah, and so she should not shout/cry loudly anywhere.

I agree the Quran was revealed for Guidance. This wasn't my question, my question was, is it wrong? Is it haram? I don't think so.
Kissing the door of Ka'aba or anything else may or may not be beneficial. That isn't the issue. Again the question is it haram? Again I don't think it is.

In my humble opinion it is wrong, because the Prophet Muhammad pbuh never did such thing, and so i follow my prophet pbuh.


Salam


Wael.