Quote:I meant "were" not "where"... "Where Were Adam & Eve created in original nakedness?" I'm aware that it's appropriate for a married couple to see each other in the nude, however, at what moment did Adam & Eve realize that they needed to wear clothes? Did they hijab immediately or just cover up their private parts? What about their children since they were all family members & women aren't required to hijab in the presence of immediate family???
In other words, when did hijab begin?
And now you say this:
Quote:As for asking a broader range of people about hijab, I'm only interested in Islam's view because that's where it originates from.
So which is it? First you are asking when the rules for dress began, and now you are making a declaration from your own thinking that it began with Islam so what is the point of asking in the first place? That does not make any sense.
05-14-2007, 03:48 AM (This post was last modified: 05-14-2007, 03:50 AM by wel_mel_2.)
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:There's not one Christian I know that follows the criteria of hijab that you mentioned in post #25.
But I know many FHC, and I have started a thread sometimes ago called “<i>Egyptian Christians Defend HIJAB</i>” on this link you will see that Christians themselves acknowledged that they are following the footsteps of Virgin Mary by imitating the way she used to dress up. So maybe you don’t know of any Christian who observe Hijab, but there are many out there FHC.
Plus you should know well that many Christians do believe that head cover is an obligatory on Christian women, not optional as you said.
Quote:The Bible doesn't say what a covering should look like, but there are principles that apply. Modesty and sobriety is one. Therefore: a plain, simple covering. I believe separation and nonconformity to the world are also involved. Therefore: a covering that is different from what women of the world sometimes wear on their heads, and is distinctive; so that people who see it realize it is something different, worn on purpose with a religious reason behind it. Along with this is letting your light shine before men, not hiding it under a bushel, so that they may see your good works and glorify your Father. Using something to cover your head in obedience to the Bible which other women use to cover their heads as protection from weather or dirt, or as a decoration, could be like hiding your light. Even if it is unintentional, the Christian woman still fits in with the women of the world, and others may not realize that what she has on her head is any different from things they sometimes wear. I wouldn't say wearing a bandanna isn't obeying 1 Corinthians 11:2-16, because it can cover the head and hair. However, it would perhaps be more in accordance with Biblical principles to wear a covering, in public at least, that is recognizable as a covering worn for a reason out of the ordinary--to obey God. Matthew 5:14-16; Romans 12:2, 2 Corinthians 5:20; 6:17; Philippians 2:15,16
Please note: I am not trying to prove to you that the <b>Islamic Hijab </b> is obligatory in Christianity, this is only to prove that many Christians believe in <b>head covering</b> to be an obligatory (<i>according to the Bible</i>) and not optional as you have mentioned.
Salam
Wael.
<i>Christians covering their hair like Virgin Mary used to.</i>
Quote:So which is it? First you are asking when the rules for dress began, and now you are making a declaration from your own thinking that it began with Islam so what is the point of asking in the first place? That does not make any sense.
Okay Sis!
As far as I'm concerned "Hijab" began with Islam in the 7th Century AD. It was non-existent before Muhammad (PBUH). What I'm asking for is the Islamic theology behind it. If everyone from Eve to the Blessed Virgin Mary were Muslim, why wasn't hijab necessary for people in their time? Or was it? If so, how? What's the history of hijab <i>according to Islam</i>? I have my opinion but I'm searching for a scholarly answer from your end.
Quote:Thanks FHC, but no, I am not seeking facts about your faith and I did not make that post to give you a spring board to preach. Simply I was stating my observation, and letting you know that to find the answer to YOUR question you should discuss with a broader range of people. I thought that was easy enough to understand, but hopefully now it is clear for you. Take care.
In that case I'm sorry. I took your post the wrong way. It happens! You take care too.
In the Name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Spirit - One God - now & forever. Amen.
May the peace of Christ be with you!
Quote:But I know many FHC, and I have started a thread sometimes ago called “<i>Egyptian Christians Defend HIJAB</i>” on this link you will see that Christians themselves acknowledged that they are following the footsteps of Virgin Mary by imitating the way she used to dress up. So maybe you don’t know of any Christian who observe Hijab, but there are many out there FHC.
Wael, I didn't read the entire article but early on it states that those Christian girls are a minority (55/2700) who attend an Egyptian Islamic/Government school. I, too, would respect the rules & dress the same way. Following the footsteps of the BVM requires us to veil our hearts first & foremost. An outward show of fidelity to God is the equivalent of a Pharisee. A veil is between a woman & God, not a woman & the public.
Quote:Please note: I am not trying to prove to you that the <b>Islamic Hijab </b> is obligatory in Christianity, this is only to prove that many Christians believe in <b>head covering</b> to be an obligatory (<i>according to the Bible</i>) and not optional as you have mentioned.
Islamic hijab & Christian head dress are as different as Jesus Christ in Catholicism (the Son of God) & Isa in Islam (the Prophet). Some Christians might believe that wearing a veil during worship is compulsory but it has nothing to do with "hijab".
Quote:<i>Christians covering their hair like Virgin Mary used to.</i>
Have you ever seen a Christian picture/statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary looking like this? Can't say I have!
05-15-2007, 04:30 AM (This post was last modified: 05-16-2007, 06:38 AM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:Wael, I didn't read the entire article but early on it states that those Christian girls are a minority (55/2700) who attend an Egyptian Islamic/Government school. I, too, would respect the rules & dress the same way. Following the footsteps of the BVM requires us to veil our hearts first & foremost. An outward show of fidelity to God is the equivalent of a Pharisee. A veil is between a woman & God, not a woman & the public.
Then you should read the whole article to see what Christians said regarding the veil.
Quote:Merriam Nabil has been wearing a headscarf since the preliminary grade.
"We wear the headscarves inside and outside the school just like our mothers," said the Christian student.
Quote:Lotfi Adly, the father of a Christian student, agreed.
"If our daughters had been really forced to wear hijab, we would have never kept our mouths shut," he told IOL.
Quote:The Christian father said the overwhelming majority of Egyptians are devout and conservative.
"Do you think I would be happy seeing my kid's hair uncovered?"
Quote:The mother of Fayza Awad, a Christian student, asserted that herself and her daughter were modeling themselves after Virgin Marry.
"I wear a headscarf because Virgin Mary covered her hair. This is all about respect and there is no compulsion."
Plus this is not an ISLAMIC school; it is only an ordinary public school where Hijab is not to be forced even on the Muslim girls. That was only the choice of the Christian girls and their parents out of conviction, they believe that this is the right way, and strangly, they are Christians like you.
Quote:Have you ever seen a Christian picture/statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary looking like this?
05-15-2007, 05:10 AM (This post was last modified: 05-15-2007, 05:12 AM by Faith Hope Charity.)
Quote:Then you should read the whole article to see what Christians said regarding the veil.
Plus this is not an ISLAMIC school; it is only an ordinary public school where Hijab is not to be forced even on the Muslim girls. That was only the choice of the Christian girls and their parents out of conviction, they believe that this is the right way, and strangly, they are Christians like you.
Okay I read the article. Some parents complained about the uniform others didn't. Different strokes for different folks, I guess!
From the quotes you provided, I take it they're more influenced by the Egyptian culture than the Holy Bible. Why do they feel it's necessary to wear a veil at all times? Why would a parent be unhappy to see their child unveiled? These ideas aren't biblical.
Quote:Definitely!
How beautiful! My heart opened up. A picture speaks a thousand words. Please take a good hard look at Our Lady & the school girls (or Islamic hijab in general). If you study them carefully, you'll see that they're completely different! May God bless those students & their families regardless. Intention counts.
Quote:From the quotes you provided, I take it they're more influenced by the Egyptian culture than the Holy Bible. Why do they feel it's necessary to wear a veil at all times? Why would a parent be unhappy to see their child unveiled? These ideas aren't biblical.
No one said that these ideas are biblical FHC, all what they said is that they wish to imitate Mary.
Quote:Please take a good hard look at Our Lady & the school girls (or Islamic hijab in general). If you study them carefully, you'll see that they're completely different! May God bless those students & their families regardless. Intention counts.
the style is different yeah, but this is how Hijab looks like FHC.
Quote:<div align="center"> THE HIJAB: Misconceived! Mistaken! Misunderstood!
(By Mehal Krayem, Fatma Youssef and Amna Elghoul)
The single most controversial issue facing young Muslim women everywhere is the ‘hijab’. The issue of the hijab is surrounded by many myths, misunderstandings and misconceptions, and no doubt this means everyone has an opinion on it.
For some the hijab is considered an act of faith, to others simply an inconvenience. So…what is it about the hijab that makes some smile and others frown and shake their heads with disapproval? How do you feel about the hijab and how much do you really know?
We interviewed a group of twenty 13-18 year olds (male and female) and found out how much they knew and what they really thought, and no doubt some were surprised to find out they really didn’t know much about this greatly misunderstood act of faith.
About the only thing we all agreed upon in the discussion room was that “Muslim women” wear the hijab. For a discussion that lasted an entire hour that really doesn’t say much for our so-called “multi-cultural” society. A sixteen year old female from Sydney says “If people want to look at Australia as being only for white Anglo Saxon Australians, then maybe you should look into it a little more closely and you’ll realise that we white Anglo Saxon “Australians” shouldn’t be here anyway, considering this land belongs to the founders and we should follow their customs and beliefs and not those of Europeans. This would mean that we’d be living as the Indigenous Australians did hunting and gathering and taking from the land only what we needed. The whites took the land unjustly from the Aboriginals anyway. So to put it plainly, we’ve got double standards and it’s not fair to those involved.”
Others had very different views and didn’t think that there was a place for Muslim women in today’s society. A 17 year old male from Sydney says “...I feel it is not appropriate in Australian society and culture (to wear the hijaab). If it is not necessary to wear it, why separate yourself from the community you’re trying to fit into....”
But my fellow Australians, if you remember, we do live in a multi-cultural society and we did decide to abolish the White Australia Policy sometime last century. Remember the Whitlam era. So in fact what you’re saying is that you should not openly express your religion because in this multi-cultural society, where one should be accepted regardless of their skin colour, religion or cultural background, they aren’t going to be because people don’t like the fact that they’re covering their body from undesired attention. I think it is a bit hard to exclude certain people from our society due to their religion and still call ourselves a multi-cultural society, don’t you?
Although there was some negativity towards the hijab there were also some positive attitudes, and I recall a few people saying how they admired a girl who wore the hijab and saw her as being strong for doing so.
Many also said that one of the reasons people disapproved of young women wearing the hijab was because they felt threatened by it, as this is alien to them: “...There are some people in today’s society that feel threatened by difference and this feeling makes them uncomfortable, and so they don’t want to ask questions and find out the truth, they just want to be as far from it (the hijab) as possible....”
This feeling that makes a person uncomfortable is creating a division in our society. Everyone that was asked agreed that the best way to re-unite parts of our community would be to educate them about the hijab and the Islamic religion in general.
The next step however wasn’t such an easy one. We found it was a lot harder to come up with ways to educate people in our society because there are so many people who don’t want to know. There are those arrogant and ignorant members of society who aren’t going to listen to you no matter what you say, and they’re only ever going to hear what they want to hear.
Many also agreed that the media could be deemed responsible for the creation and spreading of some of the misconceptions of the hijab. They thought that certain documentaries, current affair programmes or articles written about the hijab were misleading and this had a negative effect on the girls wearing the hijab, as people don’t understand the reasons behind it.
During our discussion it was suggested that often people saw the wearing of the hijab as a sign of oppression. They said that this was mainly due to the stereotypical images of Muslim women created by the media. However, I don’t want you to mistake what I am saying. Don’t think that I’m saying that every single Muslim woman out there is free. No, certainly not, there is no way I could say this, just like I couldn’t say that every single Christian, Catholic, Jewish or Buddhist woman is free.
The question then came up: ‘is your first impression of a Muslim girl wearing the hijab different to that of a girl not wearing the hijab?’ There were a wide variety of answers, but the one that was said with the most negativity is that a girl wearing the hijab is instantly recognised as being different from everyone else. This then allows people to sub-consciously label her as Muslim, not Black, or White, or Yellow, but Muslim.
But now think about that. Obviously the woman is proud to be a Muslim, for she is wearing the hijab. So maybe it’s not really such a negative thing. In fact for a girl wearing the hijab it’s certainly not a bad thing; it’s probably the biggest compliment you could give her.
Hopefully after reading this article you are now more open to the complexity of the world and the way we human beings think, but also the simplicity of the hijab. This hijab is a simple piece of cloth that a woman wears on her head to show how strong her faith and dedication to God is. Yet, this simple and often very beautiful piece of material would have the ability to cause so much controversy and misunderstanding. Still after all that’s happened, Muslim women continue to wear the hijab which shows that their faith is still strong and their dedication, even stronger. I think that’s saying something, don’t you?
So then, why would Muslim women choose to wear the hijab if it is understood to be so oppressive by so many people? What does the hijab represent, what does it mean, and what are the responsibilities that a Muslim woman has in wearing the hijab? Have Islam and the hijab, a simple piece of cloth, liberated or oppressed women? And could there possibly be any benefits in wearing the hijab in today's modern consumer loving society?
Well we spoke to some young Muslim girls who shared their views on the hijab, their experiences and how they feel in the Australian society. But to get the answers to the most important questions asked by so many, all we have to do is look at the basic Islamic sources: the Quran, Holy Book and the Sunnah, traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).
The hijab is a piece of cloth or material that covers a woman's head, hair and chest area. A woman with the hijab on must cover her whole body excluding her face and hands.
Aisha, the wife of the Muhammad, reported that Asmaa, the daughter of Abu Bakr, came to the Messenger of Allah while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: ‘O Asmaa! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands.” (Abu Dawood)
The word HIJAB means to veil, cover, screen, protect, seclude and obscure. But most importantly, it means ‘barrier’. It can be a barrier that protects and screens off a woman's body and beauty from men and the public.
Why do Muslim women have to wear the hijab?
This is the question that everyone asks, and, the answer is simple: because Allah has asked Muslim women to do so.
“O people, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known to be Muslims and not annoyed...” (Quran 33:59)
Muslim women wear the hijab for modesty, for respect and to fulfill their way of life: Islam. The hijab allows women to be judged on their intellect rather than their appearance. The hijab helps Muslim women to make a statement about their identity, feel dignified, modest and confident. The hijab also limits the way men treat women as ‘sex objects’ and allows them to be treated as ‘equals’.
The requirement of wearing the hijab is to cover ones beauty, the hijab covers ones hair, neck and bosom (chest area). The whole body is to be covered except for the face and hands, clothing should be loose, not to show ones body shape; clothes must be thick, not see through; and they should not attract a man’s attention. A Muslim woman’s dress should not imitate that of a man it should be modest: not too fancy, not to ragged, just right.
More importantly though, the hijab is not merely the external dress code, it also has an internal facet. The hijab also involves the behaviour, manners, speech, and appearance of a woman in public. The external appearance is just one part of the total being. The hijab is not a restriction, but it is seen as a way in which society will function in a proper, Islamic manner.
The hijab has liberated women not oppressed them. It gives women their rights and freedom in society to be treated like a human being not a sex object or a man’s slave. In the past, before Islam and the hijab were introduced to women, women had no rights; they were owned by men for sexual enjoyment and seen as a factory that produces offspring and a devil in human form. When Islam came, women felt liberated and were treated with dignity and respect. Through Islam, women were given equal rights as men and were no longer obliged to the injustices and torture laid on them by the Pre-Islamic world.
Why is the hijab so important in today's society?
The hijab allows women to be judged on their personality and mind, as opposed to their looks and appearance. This is an important moral in our society today. The ‘West’ say they give freedom to women, yet why do they have to throw in a women in every commercial and advertisement that has nothing to do with women?
In today's world women are being encouraged to show off their bodies and be proud of their femininity. And yet we know that the majority of designers behind the most dominant fashion names are men. So, women are still being controlled by men and are not apparently equal in today's society.
Today, getting dressed half- naked is seen as ‘girl power’. Is it really, or is it sexism? The ‘West’ argues that women should wear what they please; so then why do they find it so hard to understand why Muslim women choose to wear the hijab?
The absurd things people say to girls that wear the hijab...
• “Do you go to sleep with it on?”
• “Do you take a shower with it on?”
• “Does that mean that you are bald underneath?”
• “Are you engaged now?” one girl was asked when she put it on in year 7
• “Can your Dad or your brother see your hair?”
• “Do you know Osama Bin Laden?”
• “Are you a Terrorist?”
These are just some of the remarks young Muslim women get from people. Such negative ideas and ignorance on the hijab only alienates Muslim women in the wider society and destroys the willingness to accept and respect each other.
It is important for every person to understand the reasons Muslim women choose to wear the hijab and how they feel in the Australian society.
By the way, the answers to the above questions would most probably be: no, no, no, no, yes, no, and no!
BABY, IT’S ALL GOOD
Author unknown
What do you see when you look at me
Do you see someone limited, or someone free
All some people can do is just look and stare
Simply because they can't see my hair
Others think I am controlled and uneducated
They think that I am limited and un-liberated
They are so thankful that they are not me
Because they would like to remain 'free'
Well free isn't exactly the word I would've used
Describing women who are cheated on and abused
They think that I do not have opinions or voice
They think that being hooded isn't my choice
They think that the hood makes me look caged
That my husband or dad are totally outraged
All they can do is look at me in fear
And in my eye there is a tear
Not because I have been stared at or made fun of
But because people are ignoring the One up above
On the day of judgment they will be the fools
Because they were too ashamed to play by their own rules
Maybe the guys won't think I am a cutie
But at least I am filled with more inner beauty
See I have declined from being a guy's toy
Because I won't let myself be controlled by a boy
Real men are able to appreciate my mind
And aren't busy looking at my behind
Hooded girls are the ones really helping the Muslim cause
The role that we play definitely deserves applause
I will be recognized because I am smart and bright
And because some people are inspired by my sight
The smart ones are attracted by my tranquillity
In the back of their mind they wish they were me
We have the strength to do what we think is right
Even if it means putting up a life long fight
You see we are not controlled by a mini skirt and tight shirt
We are given only respect, and never treated like dirt
So you see, we are the ones that are free and liberated
We are not the ones that are sexually terrorized and violated
We are the ones that are free and pure
We're free of STD's that have no cure
So when people ask you how you feel about the hood
Just sum it up by saying, 'Baby it’s all good'
THE VEIL
(From the Sound Vision documentary Hijab: An Act of Faith)
They say, "Oh, poor girl, you're so beautiful you know
It's a shame that you cover up your beauty so."
She just smiles and graciously responds reassuringly,
"This beauty that I have is just one simple part of me.
This body that I have, no stranger has the right to see.
These long clothes, this shawl I wear, ensure my modesty.
Faith is more essential than fashion, wouldn’t you agree?"
This hijab,
This mark of piety,
Is an act of faith, a symbol,
For all the world to see.
A simple cloth, to protect her dignity.
So lift the veil from your heart to see the heart of purity.
They tell her, "Girl, don’t you know this is the West and you are free?
You don’t need to be oppressed, ashamed of your femininity."
She just shakes her head and she speaks so assuredly,
"See the bill-boards and the magazines that line the check-out isles,
With their phony painted faces and their air-brushed smiles?
Well their sheer clothes and low cut gowns they are really not for me.
You call it freedom, I call it anarchy."
This hijab,
This mark of piety,
Is an act of faith, a symbol,
For all the world to see.
A simple cloth, to protect her dignity.
So lift the veil from your heart to see the heart of purity.
Lift the veil from your heart and seek the heart of purity.
</div>
Hijab is something that we are proud of as muslims. It gives us an identity that protects us from the surrounded world. Unfortunately, in our countries nowadays girls are using hijab in a wrong way and i wish that they will know one day the real meaning beyond hijab. For me, Hijab means covering urself and protect it from not only strangers but also protect urself from urself. It should be protecting u from talking about others, hurting others by any means, it gives u the feeling of being a real muslima. This is what happened with me. It made me struggle my inner self. Hijab made me protect myself from myself. Whenever i wear it when i go out it reminds me of being muslima and that i should respect my great identity. It made me more shy and respectful. I felt the respects in all people's eyes men and women. It gave me the opportunity to discuss myself more and more. This is hijab me, it's still cleaning me from the inside before the outside. I am proud of wearing it
05-16-2007, 06:40 AM (This post was last modified: 05-16-2007, 06:45 AM by Muslimah.)
Bismillah
as salam alykom
[<b>color=#000099]Wael Pls stop posting pictures of Mariam holding Eassa prayer and peace be upon both of them even to prove to FHC what u want about Hijab. I deleted similar pics you posted before. If u have also noticed, one of the pics had Eassa naked with private parts revealed. We dont need to go that far Wael. And i m sure, by now, you are somewhat aware of her aim. All she wants is to prove that women dress code was concurrent with the appearence of Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him, was his invention. Being part of our teachings, she wants to end up that Islam is, unlike we introduce, something invented at that time and was never the origin of all other religions which were distorted by the followers for their own desires.
</b>
Jazakum Allah khairan.[/color]
FHC, in this thread u kept bouncing back and forth between points and comments including that O wearing my whatever will make me immodest. Well you are not Muslim, Allah Shall not Judge you because you were uncovered, but for other reasons. Thus, why worry if you are not following an Islamic teaching? As for us, dress code is clearly introduced in Quran, we have nothing to do with any other scripture, because Quran is enough for us.
05-16-2007, 08:13 AM (This post was last modified: 05-16-2007, 08:13 AM by wel_mel_2.)
Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.
Quote:[<b>color=#000099]Wael Pls stop posting pictures of Mariam holding Eassa prayer and peace be upon both of them even to prove to FHC what u want about Hijab. I deleted similar pics you posted before. If u have also noticed, one of the pics had Eassa naked with private parts revealed. We dont need to go that far Wael. And i m sure, by now, you are somewhat aware of her aim. All she wants is to prove that women dress code was concurrent with the appearence of Mohamed prayer and peace be upon him, was his invention. Being part of our teachings, she wants to end up that Islam is, unlike we introduce, something invented at that time and was never the origin of all other religions which were distorted by the followers for their own desires.
</b><b>
Jazakum Allah khairan</b>
<b>.[/color]</b>
Jazkai Allahu khiran for this reminder, I did not judge FHC intention, but mine was to show her that Mary used to dress the same way which was prescribed for Muslim woman. (<i>of course I do not believe that Mary looks like that, these images were created by human imagination only</i>).
