No Compulsion in Islam?

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Spirit - One God - now & forever - Amen.


May the peace of Christ be with you!

Jesus himself said in the Bible <b>'Honor your father and mother' and 'Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death
.</b>' So maybe you wouldn’t kill anyone, but Jesus give the order of killing those who mistreat their parents. You always present your personal opinion which is totally respected, but don’t try to associate that with the Bible.

What exactly is your reason for bringing up that verse (out of context as per usual) in a thread that has absolutely nothing to do with it? Desperation??? Wael, if you wish to throw me off or portray The Faith in a negative light, I'd appreciate it if you went about it with just a tad of integrity. Please don't try to associate <i>your</i> opinion with Scripture until you first study the text.


St Matthew 15:



1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,


2 "Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat."


3 He answered them, "And why do you transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?


4 For God commanded, `Honor your father and your mother' (Ex 20:2), and, `He who speaks evil of father or mother, let him surely die' (Ex 20:12; 21:17).


5 But you say, `If any one tells his father or his mother, What you would have gained from me is given to God, he need not honor his father.'


6 So, for the sake of your tradition, you have made void the word of God.


7 You hypocrites!


My "opinion"...


The Pharisees had distorted the true meaning of the 4th Commandment. They taught that Jews who contributed to the temple in cash or kind were absolved from supporting their parents. The people considered it a sacrilege for parents to lay claim to the temple offerings. Elderly parents were left to fend for themselves. Jesus, who is Messiah & God, is the one who can correctly interpret the Law. Here He explains the proper scope of the 4th Commandment exposing the error of Jewish practice with the consequence being separation from God & a spiritual death.

i advise you to read the following article.

I can't believe this!!! Yet another Islamic perspective that conflicts with what I've been taught previously by Muslims on this forum. Would Dr Zakir Naik modify his statement: "Islam condemns the killing of human beings" when dealing with Apostates?


Anyways, I liked the article a lot but it's just one of several Islamic views. I wish Islam had a pope!

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

What exactly is your reason for bringing up that verse

Because you said that you wouldn’t kill anyone, yet your master and lord gives the order of killing those who do not honor their parents. Anyway, I don’t expect you to listen to me when I quote the Bible.

I can't believe this!!! Yet another Islamic perspective that conflicts with what I've been taught previously by Muslims on this forum. Would Dr Zakir Naik modify his statement: "Islam condemns the killing of human beings" when dealing with Apostates?

We have discussed apostasy many times FHC, I don’t know if you are trying to learn here or you just get used to object anything we say.

I wish Islam had a pope!

It has the Prophet Muhammad pbub who is better than million popes.


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of the Father & of the Son & of the Holy Spirit - One God - now & forever. Amen.


May the peace of Christ be with you!

Because you said that you wouldn’t kill anyone, yet your master and lord gives the order of killing those who do not honor their parents.

Please refrain from taking the Lord's Name in vain.

Anyway, I don’t expect you to listen to me when I quote the Bible.

Can you blame me? :lol: I'm willing to compromise. You quote... I interpret :thumb:

We have discussed apostasy many times FHC, I don’t know if you are trying to learn here or you just get used to object anything we say.

Is that a yes or a no to my original question... Would <b>Dr Zakir Naik </b> (not <b>wel_mel_2</b>) modify his statement: "Islam condemns the killing of human beings" when dealing with Apostates?



If the answer's 'yes', then he's contradicting himself. If the answer's 'no', then he doesn't share your view on apostasy.

It has the Prophet Muhammad pbub who is better than million popes.

Regardless of who's better or worse. It's a matter of teaching with authority. Muhammad is dead (PBUH) & so are his successors. If you ask me, every Muslim is a messenger/caliph/pope unto himself.


Take care & God bless.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Please refrain from taking the Lord's Name in vain.

This is your own imagination FHC, please, I beg you to refrain from accusing me by taking God’s name in vain… (<i>a quick reminder, Lord does not always mean God, plus Jesus pbuh is not God</i>) if you understand the verses <i>YOUR WAY</i>, its fine, but don’t force me to believe in your interpretation which does not make sense to me, and dont try to show us that you and only you can interpret the Bible.

Is that a yes or a no to my original question... Would Dr Zakir Naik (not wel_mel_2) modify his statement: "Islam condemns the killing of human beings" when dealing with Apostates?
If the answer's 'yes', then he's contradicting himself. If the answer's 'no', then he doesn't share your view on apostasy.

You simply did not understand the article, (<i>or you are trying to be picky again to find some faults</i>) the article deals with Non Muslims <b>and NOT apostates</b>. If you want to hear his opinion on apostasy let me know.


meanwhile, please re read, or read scholars explanation regarding apostasy. IslamOnline.Net Apostasy

Regardless of who's better or worse. It's a matter of teaching with authority. Muhammad is dead (PBUH)

Before the Prophet's death he said:


"I have left amongst you two things which, if you hold fast to them, you will never stray, The Qur'an and my Sunnah”



So, we may respect scholars views and opinion, <b>but If such views go against the Word of Allah, or the Sunnah of His Prophet, then they carry no weight, regardless of how learned the scholar might be</b>. I hope you can be able to get this.


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of he Father & of the Son & of teh Holy Spirit - One God - now & forever. Amen.


May the peace of Christ be with you!

This is your own imagination FHC, please, I beg you to refrain from accusing me by taking God’s name in vain… (<i>a quick reminder, Lord does not always mean God, plus Jesus pbuh is not God</i>)

I detest what you said, but I will use my life to defend your right to say it.

if you understand the verses <i>YOUR WAY</i>, its fine, but don’t force me to believe in your interpretation which does not make sense to me, and dont try to show us that you and only you can interpret the Bible.

You sound like my Protestant friends :lol:


You're the one who inserted a biblical verse into our discussion & had the audacity to preach Christianity to me based on <i>your</i> interpretation. If you quit resorting to such lame tactics, I'll have no reason to counter attack. I can't do my job if you don't do yours.

You simply did not understand the article, (<i>or you are trying to be picky again to find some faults</i>) the article deals with Non Muslims <b>and NOT apostates</b>. If you want to hear his opinion on apostasy let me know.

You know very well that I over-analyse everything. Be careful what you post!
For the millionth time... yes, I want to hear his opinion on apostasy. Is his opinion infallible though?


Aren't all non-Muslims apostates in some sense because we were all born Muslim according to your religion?

meanwhile, please re read, or read scholars explanation regarding apostasy. IslamOnline.Net Apostasy

Thanks! InshaAllah, I'll get around to reading it soon. Do all 4 men share the same view?

Before the Prophet's death he said:
"I have left amongst you two things which, if you hold fast to them, you will never stray, The Qur'an and my Sunnah”



So, we may respect scholars views and opinion, <b>but If such views go against the Word of Allah, or the Sunnah of His Prophet, then they carry no weight, regardless of how learned the scholar might be</b>. I hope you can be able to get this.

Why would scholars choose to go against the Quran & Sunnah? If they all sincerely believe that they are doing Islam justice, yet their views are conflicting, who has the authority to stand up & decisively make a ruling? It seems very relative to me. I don't know who/what to accept.
Anyways, take care of yourself & thanks for everything!


God bless.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

I detest what you said, but I will use my life to defend your right to say it.

It’s ok.

You sound like my Protestant friends

And your sound remind me of my ex Catholic friends who are now Muslims Alhamdulelah. :)

You know very well that I over-analyse everything. Be careful what you post!

Only Allah knows your real intention. And yeah, I am always careful of what I post.

For the millionth time... yes, I want to hear his opinion on apostasy. Is his opinion infallible though?

No one is perfect but God FHC, we do not have infallible human being as you have in the Vatican.


I would like you to read the link that I’ve given you first and let me know if you wish to read more insh a Allah.

Aren't all non-Muslims apostates in some sense because we were all born Muslim according to your religion?

You were born as a Muslim <b>by nature</b>, but later on your family turned you away from the innate religion and makes you Christians or whatever, apostates are those who accepted Islam <b>by choice </b> and then turn back to their disbelief.


I hope this was clear.

Why would scholars choose to go against the Quran & Sunnah?

No one would choose to go against the Qur’an or the Sunnah, I am giving you an example that scholars’ opinions and Fatwas are based on the Qur’an and the Sunnah, if someone make a mistake (unintentionally) so it is also expected since these people are human beings.


Salam


Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

Your arrogance is breathtaking. :rolleyes:

Subhan Allah, In Islam, arrogance is completely unacceptable and was the first sin ever committed when Satan refused to obey Allah's command to bow down to Prophet Adam pbuh.


You know I don’t mind to hear your criticism, but I don’t know your aim john, are you offering me any useful advise by criticizing me? Or your intention is just to insult and hurt my feelings?


Actually, if you use your brain a little bit, you will see that there is no point in being arrogant, after all, we were all created from dust, and we are all going to die one day.


Ask yourself John, are you humble enough to bow down your head to the One who created you?


Salam


Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

And yet you have the audacity to tell people they were born muslim and their parents robbed them of being muslim !!

Based on the authentic Islamic sources, yes I can say without hesitation that every single human being was born as a Muslim. And its up to you whether to accept or reject the whole concept.

QUOTE(wel_mel_2 @ May 9 2007, 02:04 AM)
You know I don’t mind to hear your criticism, but I don’t know your aim john, are you offering me any useful advise by criticizing me? Or your intention is just to insult and hurt my feelings?


You honestly don't see the arrogance of your bold statements ?

Whatever John.


Salam


Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

The arrogance of muslims knows no bounds !! I find it absolutely astonishing that anybody would believe that. But let's put that aside for a moment and address the arrogance of the statement. It would behoove you to keep those sentiments to yourself to dispel the perception that muslims are arrogant.


Let me tell you so that you may be clear on this. Nobody was born a muslim, I certainly was not born a muslim and quite frankly I feel violated at the mere suggestion.

When we say that everyone was born as a Muslim, we are only presenting an Islamic view point, this is what we believe, we don’t expect you to believe in such teaching, we don’t even expect you to respect Islam, Muhammad pbuh or the Qur’an. So don’t just accuse us for being arrogant and enough for you to reject the Islamic teaching. That’s it.


Salam


Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah: Assalamo Alikum.

And I am presenting a reality viewpoint. Nobody is <i>born</i> muslim. It's like saying everybody is born a Manchester Utd supporter !

It is your own opinion John, we say that everyone was born Muslim, you are free to reject the idea as I mentioned earlier, and your "<i>reality view point</i>" is well respected, but doesn’t really mean anything to us. And you will never understand this topic unless you fully comprehend the meaning of the Arabic word "<b>Islam</b>"


Salam


Wael.