Ask a Shia

[Al-fateh]

talk about taking the words from the Quran and twisting it to fit a whim and a desire


Shia in Arabic means, BAND of people


and being part of a BAND means , following their way


thus the terms Shia used in the verse of the Quran , Karbala was reffering to.


Shia of today have no relation what so ever, with the verses of the Quran mentioned above.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


I understand brother fateh, that is why I told karbla i will verify the hadeeth he posted then come back. I also would like to verify the other hadeeth about the group who came to Ali, if u like to help.


What i m aware of is that a group (Murtadeen) whom actually Ali ordered for them to be burnt, u know this hadeeth, when Ibn Abbass disagreed with his decision. Those were the group who attributed divinity to Ali, am I not correct???


If u like to help on this jazakum Allah khairan. Meanwhile I m looking into the other hadeeth of the shia part... Insh a Allah.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Karbla, as long as you are sourcing to tafseer, would u help me by giving me the Surah of which the tafseer contained the hadeeth you quote regarding shia of Ali, this will Insh a Allah make my task easier.

[abdulwalee]

khumaini.... is not all Shia, and not all Shia are Khumaini


as much deviance u might find, there are people who are shia and have the right beleif


the same way wth the sunni sect...who we find some sects that are out of the fold of islam, and still call themselves sunni


lets not generalize brother, i have met muslims who are shia and their belief differ non to the sunnis...


not to neglect that there are some with wrong beliefs.

Who are They? and what is the correct belief?

[Al-fateh]

there is a lot of Shia that dont approve of him.. they dont necessarily fall into a group


even though there isa great majority who approve of him and take his word.


i personally i am against a lot of what some shias say in the name of their religion


but like i said, i have lived among several shia , who differ in nothing with the sunni's


even some educated ones who know the real deal about the sahaba

[Karbala]

:bismillah:

May Allah Allow us all to unite rather than divide. We do need this brother dont we???

:allahuakbar: My heart fills with joy when I hear words like that. From our point of view we are all muslims and it is our duty to stick together and free our lands. Listen to the speeches of Sayyed Nasrallah do you see any traces of sectarianism? By Allah a Shia can never rest easy while his/her muslims brethren are oppressed in Palestine, Afghanistan, Iraq etc.


The Supreme leader of Iran Ayatollah Sayyed Ali Khamenei declared this year as the year of islamic unity and solidarity. Inshallah i hope the ummah can get over petty differences. One day I pray that you, me and all muslims can pray freely in Al-Quds Ameen.

Alhamdulelah I m a native speaker and like to track things properly before I give u my comment.

:hamdulila:


You have a great gift I hope you dont take it for granted. I started learning Arabic a year ago and it is amazingly hard. I can just about order a taxi or ask the price of food or tell the time.

Imagine I wished that I can speak Farsi, I used to sit next to them and use very simple english, one of the women informed me that their Mullah's teach them to pray sunnah after fajr and asr rather than before. I explained that their beloved Messenger who is more important than the Mullahs taught us other wise. Not sure if u r exposed to similar situations. But this is how some scholars become responsible for faults of Muslims.

That is a bizarre incident and I dont know exactly what happened. I speak some Farsi and know Iranians quite well. Ive been to Iran and met many ulema from Iran. This maybe a one off because Iranians are normally very well informed of fiqh because the majority of Grand Ulema graduate from Qom in Iran. Nevertheless sunnah definitely before Fajr and Asr.

talk about taking the words from the Quran and twisting it to fit a whim and a desire

Shia of today have no relation what so ever, with the verses of the Quran mentioned above.

I never claimed they did. Read my post again. I was explaining the origins of the word Shia and how it is applied. I even specifically mentioned that on its own it has no positive or negative connotation simply means "follower" or "band of people" as you put it. Some people object to these terms saying that they are sectarian and devisive. I was simply saying that the term has been used in relation to such great people like Ibrahim :asalam: and therefore it cannot be wrong to use them. I do not think this is twisting the words of the Quran. If you disagree id like to know why?

Karbla, as long as you are sourcing to tafseer, would u help me by giving me the Surah of which the tafseer contained the hadeeth you quote regarding shia of Ali, this will Insh a Allah make my task easier.

I believe the Ayat was <b>98:7 (As for) those who believe and do good, surely they are the best of creatures.</b>


I think I have located the hadith in Durr al-Manthur by Suyuti. Here is the link http://www.al-eman.com/IslamLib/viewchp....48&CID=545 (just scroll to the last few sentences of Surah 98).


وأخرج ابن عدي عن ابن عباس قال‏:‏ لما نزلت ‏{‏إن الذين آمنوا وعملوا الصالحات أولئك هم خير البرية‏}‏ قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم لعلي‏:‏ هو أنت وشيعتك يوم القيامة راضين مرضيين‏"‏‏.‏

What i m aware of is that a group (Murtadeen) whom actually Ali ordered for them to be burnt, u know this hadeeth, when Ibn Abbass disagreed with his decision. Those were the group who attributed divinity to Ali, am I not correct???

You are correct there was a group known as "Ghulats" or extremists who went to the extreme of ascribing divinity to Ali. These people were punished by being burnt. I can find a reference if you like. These werent the people I was referring to and the Shia (the true Shia Ithn Ashari) most definitely will never ever ever worship Ali :hawla: God save us from such misguidance.


Concerning the Sahaba I will get back to that anopther time in another post Inshallah when I have some time.


Let me know if you need any more help. :wasalam:

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Alright, Alhamdulelah we can resume what has been put on hold for a while.


All is good from Allah.


Karbala first off Alhamdulelah i m not taking the merit and advantage of Allah - being a native Arabic speaker - for granted. Lately I started even realising the major blessing more and more.


Regarding the word Shia as you quoted it in the noble Ayahs, to build on what my brother fateh said, it is used to refer to people who are on the Deen of the other person like the case of Ibraheem who was on the path of Nuh, and the same applies for Mussa. Thus, if u apply this concept to the hadeeth which was mistakenly taken out of context, it is impossible that the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him would be meaning that those who are on the religion of Ali shall enter jannah, but he should rather mean those who are following his religion or more to say Islam according to Quran and Sunnah. Sunnah as a whole. In such case you are attibuting yourself to Ali rather than calling yourself a muslim which is actually grave if u think about it, like Buddihst calling themselves so after Buddha and other groups called after the founders.


Right now I will stop here INsh a Allah will come back for more on that particular hadeeth.


Karbala btw, it was not a single incident that I observed Shia women praying Fajr and Asr sunnah as I explained. Sobhan Allah it was a recurrent observation I had either in medina or mecca for several times. I mean it was a universal practice among them. I didnt want to jump from one point to another. But they also dont pray behind the Imam I mean they dont attach to the line and they dont follow the Imam. But to be precise those are the Iranians.


Karbla what about praying on the Turba Husainyah????? why is it a must that shia carry a small stone made of the dust of Karbala? how far this is essential in perfroming prayer?

[Karbala]

:bismillah:


Right. I think we have all misunderstood the concept of "Shia" as I presented in my post completely.

it is impossible that the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him would be meaning that those who are on the religion of Ali shall enter jannah

Read my post again I never claimed Ali had another religion. The deen of Islam is not monopolised by the followers of Ali or the followers of anyone else it is universal for anyone who says :shahadah:

In such case you are attibuting yourself to Ali rather than calling yourself a muslim

Take the example of Ibrahim :asalam: from the Quran.


Ibrahim is a Muslim.


<b>3:67 Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was "Haneef" and a "Muslim" and he was not of the idolaters.</b>


Does this stop Allah from calling Ibrahim a "Shia" of Nuh :asalam: ?


<b>37:83 Verily among those who followed his Way (Shiatih) was Abraham.</b>


I dont understand why there is a problem in someone calling themselves a "Shia of Ali". The Prophet used the same words himself. Similarly there shouldnt be a problem if someone says they follow "Salf al-Salih" or anything else.

[Karbala]

But they also dont pray behind the Imam I mean they dont attach to the line and they dont follow the Imam. But to be precise those are the Iranians.

Right this is even stranger. I went on Hajj last year and I was with an iranian group. We were given direct orders from the Iranian Foreign office to NOT pray on our own and join in Jama'a. They even refused to let us pray in the Iranian foreign consulate building, instead we had to walk to the nearest masjid. This was a direct command from Ayatollah Khamenei the Supreme Leader in Iran. I really dont know what you saw but it is not my experience for iranians to be like that at all.

Karbla what about praying on the Turba Husainyah????? why is it a must that shia carry a small stone made of the dust of Karbala? how far this is essential in perfroming prayer?

No this is not essential. It is essential that one prays on earth or anything that grows out of it. Hence Shia do not pray on carpets. Instead they carry a turbah to pray on. But one can equally pray on stone, dust, mud, straw, wood etc. This seems to be the Practise of the Prophet of Mercy(Saw) himself.


Sahih Bukhari


Volume 3, Book 33, Number 244:


Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:


"I saw with my own eyes the mark of mud and water on the forehead of the Prophet"


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...ri/033.sbt.html


Sahih Bukhari


Volume 2, Book 22, Number 299:


Narrated Anas bin Malik:


We used to pray with the Prophet in scorching heat, and if someone of us could not put his face on the earth (because of the heat) then he would spread his clothes and prostrate over them.


http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/h...ri/022.sbt.html


The Prophet also used to pray on a Khumrah


Sahih Bukhari


Volume 1, Book 8, Number 376:


Narrates 'Abdullah bin Shaddad:


Maimuna said, "Allah's Apostle was praying while I was in my menses, sitting beside him and sometimes his clothes would touch me during his prostration." Maimuna added, "He prayed on a Khumra (a small mat sufficient just for the face and the hands while prostrating during prayers).


This Khumra was made of leaves or palm fibres.

[SisterJennifer]

Asalaamu alikum brother Karbala,


I have been wanting to ask a question too, but I feel really shy asking it. I was actually hoping somebody else might, but I have not seen it addressed yet:


I dont know alot about Shia' customs, and I dont like to take CNN as a source of information. But I see every year at the new year time the Shia people have some kind of festival where they feel sorry about killing the Prophets grandsons and they hit themselves in the head and face alot until they are all bloody.


Could you please explain this ritual and what is the reasoning behind the actions?


Also, I wanted to ask if it is common among the shia people to practice the pleasure marriage?


Jazak Allah khairn brother, Allah hafiz.