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Can this be true about Polygamy in Islam?
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09-16-2005, 07:58 AM
LOL, ok sister thanks for the hint, now I remember I thought the word is normal, my intension was clean, and as you know we will be rewarded on the intensions you did not tell me where you want the post about the women? take care
09-16-2005, 08:09 AM
Bismillah I understand, however, being on an islamic board, and carrying the responsibility of admin. We do enforce certain rules on all members, if we leave this door opened, non Muslims might start using language which we dont want. The post may go on woman and family as well. Jazakum Allah khairan
09-16-2005, 08:13 AM
thank you sister, but ket me clear this please the word was used to express the arbic word "Lakhbut" and that was my intension take care, I will post the long thread about women somtetime tonight, I just need to edit it to suit the html tags on your forum take care
09-16-2005, 08:15 AM
Bismillah Insh a Allah, take your time, I understand brother no problem.
04-01-2007, 08:52 PM
Salam brothers and sisters This subject is always confusing, what I found in my 42 years of life that polygamy is practised wrong by almost all Muslims therefore I had to prepare this article, the article is going to be controversial but I hope some knowledgeable Muslims reply to it and show me where things went wrong in my article, most of my articles are going to be controversial indeed, the reason for that is simply as follow, I decided after 25 years of researching the Quran that I have to refer everything I was taught by humans (family and culture) to Allah preserved words, if that test has passed then piece of cake, if not and I continued to follow the wrong teaching then I will be nothing more than a Devote Christian who is sticking to what the humans taught him, not to what Allah has taught us in His preserved and infallible words I don’t believe that marrying more than one woman is offered on a plate of gold for men to practise whenever they want, it was only offered with two conditions that must be met before Muslim men can marry more than one wife, we were told by Allah that one of these conditions will never be met by any man, therefore we are indeed ordered to marry only one. Let me explain in more details: We have been informed by Allah in 3:7 that there are some verses in the Quran that are Mutashabihat, A Mutashabih verse is a verse that is hard to understand, it can have many meanings, and even some of the meanings are contradicting each other, the whole idea behind the Mutashabihat verses is a further testing to the believers and the unbelievers as we are told in 3:7, it serves the following purpose: 1) Some unbelievers will chase the meanings of these verses to cause discord between the believers 2) The believers should take this Mutashabihat verses as from Allah without chasing the meaning of it after recognising that a specific verse is Mutashabih That is what Allah told us in 3:7, please have a look in here for further details regarding 3:7 I truly believe that verse 4:3 is Mutashabih verse, i.e. hard to understand, the reasons are simply as follow: 1) It is the only verse that discusses polygamy, i.e. we can’t use the Quran to explain it. 2) There are many different understandings, some clearly conflict with the spirit of the Quran (especially in regards to the orphans) 3) Because the verse relates to an important law and is also Mutashabih i.e. how we can follow it if we don’t understand it?, the law in 4:3 to marry up to four may be ignored by the true believers because they should comply with another law, not surprising, the other law is in the same verse: <b></b> "If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.) [The Quran ; 4:3] <b></b> وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ النِّسَاء مَثْنَى وَثُلاَثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ (3) -> The verse started with a problem related to the orphans: <b>” If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans”</b>, the first impression is, orphans means orphans “<b>men and women</b>”, others say the orphans in the verse means “<b>orphaned women only</b>”, they also suggest that those orphaned women are ready for marriage, the problem in hand which is fearing to be just to the orphans is also understood differently by others, some suggested, being unjust to the orphans is by not taking good care of them, others suggested different things that only related to the orphaned but wealthy women. -> Those who suggested that being unjust is specifically related to the injustice towards the orphaned women who are ready to marry and they have wealth is caused by the men fear after marrying them not to be just by joining their wealth to the orphaned women wealth then abuse it, this understanding is very strange indeed, we need all these sequence of events for it to be true, i.e. an orphaned women who is wealthy and is ready to marry, I believe they are basing their understanding on the previous verse: <b>" To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their property (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.” </b> [The Quran ; 4:2] <b></b> وَآتُواْ الْيَتَامَى أَمْوَالَهُمْ وَلاَ تَتَبَدَّلُواْ الْخَبِيثَ بِالطَّيِّبِ وَلاَ تَأْكُلُواْ أَمْوَالَهُمْ إِلَى أَمْوَالِكُمْ إِنَّهُ كَانَ حُوبًا كَبِيرًا (2) -> Again 4:2 only mentioned the orphans in general “<b>men and women</b>”, Allah is advising us :<b>” To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their property (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin.”</b>, the verse never stated that it is a case of marriage that we should not mix our property with theirs when we marry them nor it said orphaned women only, 4:2 is very clear indeed, they only selected a specific case that should be covered under the general rule of not abusing the property of the orphans as stated in 4:2, I guess they were trying to justify their understanding to 4:3 that it meant this case of not being fair with the orphaned women when they marry them, what is surprising that what they try to convince us with regarding marrying the orphaned women IS MENTIOJED EXACTLY AS THEY SAID IN 4:127, here it is: <b>" And they ask you a decision about women. Say: Allah makes known to you His decision concerning them, and that which is recited to you in the Book concerning female orphans whom you do not give what is appointed for them while you desire to marry them, and concerning the weak among children, and that you should deal towards orphans with equity; and whatever good you do, Allah surely knows it. "</b> <i>[The Quran ; 4:127]</i> <b></b> وَيَسْتَفْتُونَكَ فِي النِّسَاء قُلِ اللّهُ يُفْتِيكُمْ فِيهِنَّ وَمَا يُتْلَى عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ فِي يَتَامَى النِّسَاء الَّلاتِي لاَ تُؤْتُونَهُنَّ مَا كُتِبَ لَهُنَّ وَتَرْغَبُونَ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ وَالْمُسْتَضْعَفِينَ مِنَ الْوِلْدَانِ وَأَن تَقُومُواْ لِلْيَتَامَى بِالْقِسْطِ وَمَا تَفْعَلُواْ مِنْ خَيْرٍ فَإِنَّ اللّهَ كَانَ بِهِ عَلِيمًا (127) -> See, <b>” Allah makes known to you His decision concerning them, and that which is recited to you in the Book concerning female orphans whom you do not give what is appointed for them while you desire to marry them”</b>, can you see that Allah was very specific when He used the words: <b>” يَتَامَى النِّسَاء”</b>, <b>”Yatama Al Nisa”</b>, <b>” female orphans”</b>, see also how He told us that we wanted to marry those orphaned women: <b>” وَتَرْغَبُونَ أَن تَنكِحُوهُنَّ”</b>, <b>”Wa Targhabon Ann Tankahuna”</b>, <b>” while you desire to marry them”</b>, these conditions were NEVER mentioned in 4:3 nor 4:2, I see no relation whatsoever between 4:2-3 and 4:127, however it is still a possibility as there is nothing firm from the Quran to refute it, I guess it can be relative here, even relative regarding what the orphans means, some may say losing any of the parents will make them orphaned, others say they must loose both their parents to be orphaned, another confusing matter in hand. We saw that the problem in hand is very confusing and can have more than one meaning, we will also see that the solution proposed is confusing and can have more than one meaning: <b>” Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four;”</b>, ok, whom exactly they will marry?, is it : 1) Any other woman 2) Any other woman but she must be a mother of some orphans 3) Another woman but must not be an orphaned women 4) Another orphaned woman who has no wealth 5) Another wealthy and orphaned woman Again, each one can possibly apply with a percentage according to its merit, we may sense that one option has a higher possibility than the other, but all five possibilities may still have a percentage even if it is 1% -> How Allah do this to us? I mean we have a serious problem in hand which was not very clear and the solution is even not clearer, but what we can sense that the solution is good for men and bad for women, I guess most men know that, I believe most of them will also be in the favour of marrying more than one, but hold on a second, the solution was conditioned:<b>” but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one”</b>, now we have a mutashabihat condition as well, I guess the condition can be mutashabihat because some men may think that they can be fair with women hence they will go for marrying more than one, and others will never even think about it and just marry more than one, it doesn’t matter for them if they will deal justly and equally with their wives, in fact they always lean not to be just between the wives and even deliberately treat them unfairly -> I found it amazing that the Mutashabihat problem, the Mutashabihat solution and the Mutashabihat condition all fell in one verse, this made me believe that 4:3 is a Mutashabihat verse, however verse 4:129 in the same sura must affect the Mutashabihat condition “<b>being just between the multiple wives</b>” and should take it out of the men judgment: <b>"Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire...... "</b> <i>[The Quran ; 4:5]</i> <b></b> وَلَن تَسْتَطِيعُواْ أَن تَعْدِلُواْ بَيْنَ النِّسَاء وَلَوْ حَرَصْتُمْ ……… (129 -> Here we go, clearly Allah is telling us in the above verse that: <b>” Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire”</b>, therefore, this important piece of information should relate to the Mutashabihat condition in 4:3, and should make our fear not to treat our multiple wives equally and justly a reality and a fact that can never be tackled and defeated, there is no way out of it, it is in the Hu_Man nature when it comes to dealing with women. I can’t lie and say that I didn’t try to chase the meaning of 4:3, but my chase was only to see where all other understandings are coming from, NOT TO FIOLLOW ANY OF THEM, as my decision was already made according to 4:3 in conjunction with 4:129 that true submitters to Allah should marry ONE wife only as told by Allah because they will never be able to be just between multiple wives. Therefore 4:3 for me is a mutashabihat verse by design, because it complies with 3:7, when I say it complies perfectly with 3:7, I meant the following: 1) The enemy of Islam used the verse to cause discord between the believers and the others by trying to show that our religion is sort of a lusty one and does not care for women feelings 2) Many of the believers followed different understandings because it will work in their favours 3) Seeing the solution practised in many cultures and even in my family, I quickly realized “<b>The discord</b>” and the horrible effects it brings on the wives and the children, this made me believe it is not practised right, I hardly see the polygamy practised for the sake of orphans anyway, I only see it practised because of lust or because husbands got sick of their aging wives, yet I hardly saw any polygamy that is working in a peaceful environment between all parties involved. My strongest argument is: it is obvious that 4:129 should make us not to worry about marrying more than one wife as stated in 4:3 therefore there is no need to chase the meaning of the mutashabihat bits in 4:3 if the decision was already made to follow 4:129 and not to follow any of the different understandings for 4:3 by many other Muslims. I discussed this with one Sunni scholar in Australia, he has a Radio station that promote Islam, he was really very pissed of me, I saw the anger in his eyes and in the eyes of all with him, it was a bit funny, that I accused them of lust and shirk while they accused me of kufr, it was in their premises but they can’t do damn thing to me, we just left at we agree to disagree, however it is my duty to tell you how that Sunni scholar understands 4:3 He said, 4:3 is about the orphaned women only, he also said that those orphaned women have reached the marriage status, then he added that those orphaned women are wealthy, then he explained the fear not be just with those orphaned wives is caused by abusing their wealth after joining the two wealths together or by not paying the appointed dowry to them because they are rich already, finally he explained the solution which is to not to marry that wealthy orphan and marry up to another non orphaned women and pay the dowry to them. Ahmed says: This is laughable indeed. See, the problem is related to the orphaned women that the men who married them fear they will abuse their wealth so they go and marry others, it makes absolutely non sense because the solution is not related to those orphaned and wealthy women any more, the man is just going to marry others, now I have to ask why he should go and marry another 4 if the problem is fearing not to be just to the orphans? It’s really ridiculous by those ignorant scholars, I have to ask again, where the orphans fit when those horny men marry other women? Indeed if you analyse most Muslims polygamy you will see clearly that the majority of it are marrying other women who are not orphaned nor those women have orphaned children, it just doesn’t add up I do believe firmly that it is all about the widows and their orphaned children, knowing well from the history that 4:3 was revealed after the battle of Uhud where many Muslim men died leaving behind a whole bunch of widows and children, the other Muslim men who survived the battle were baffled to what to do with all these masses of widows and their orphaned children, this is when this verse was revealed which I do believe that it allows a Muslim and capable man to marry up to four widows who have orphaned children and the main motive for the marriage must be to care for those children, and this what the Muslims did when the verse was revealed after the defeat in Uhud battle. It is easier said than done for those men to say, ok I will care for that woman and her children by sending her whatever amount of money every month so she can survive and raise the children, but for how long they will do it? , some other factors may cause the men not to send money for short periods, what the widow and her children do then?, see if the man married that widow to care for her children then there will be no worries because the children now will be considered as his children especially he is married to their mother What left for me to discuss is why four?, why not 5 or 6 or 10?, obviously if we follow the assumed understanding that 4:3 means to marry the mothers of the orphaned then each one must have at least one orphan, i.e. the man may end up with 4 orphaned children in addition to his own children from each wife and in addition to the four wives that he has to support, as well and most importantly supporting himself, this argument adds weight to this assumed understanding, because if it was not related to the orphans then there is no logical reason not to marry 5 or 6 or even 100 woman There is no doubt that there is a lot of wisdom behind this understanding especially it complies with every word in the Quran regarding this subject or at least it fits logically and even historically if the events during this verse revelation are considered, it is all about the orphans not the husbands nor the wives, but if it is about the wives then men can never be fair between them (4:129), hence they should marry only one (4:3) Allah knows best Salam 
04-03-2007, 03:06 AM
(This post was last modified: 04-03-2007, 03:12 AM by abdulwalee.)
<b>Concerning polygamy</b> Question: Some people say that marrying more than one wife is not allowed unless a person has orphans under his care and he fears that he will not do justice between them. Then he may marry their mother or one of her daughters. For evidence, they quote the verse: {And if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan-girls, then marry women of your choice, two, three or four...}, [soorah an-Nisaa., Aayah 3). Response: This statement is false. The meaning of the verse is that if a person has under his care an orphan and he fears that he will not give her the proper amount of dower, then he should marry other women, for there are many women and Allaah will not make things difficult for him. The verse points to the legality of marrying<b> two, three or four wives. </b> This is allowed because it leads to more chastity, lowering of eyesight and guarding of the private parts. Furthermore, that is a cause for more children and the chastity of more women, as well as them being treated properly and cared for. There is no doubt that the woman who has one-half of a husband or one-third or one-fourth is better off than the one who has no husband at all. However, one must meet the condition of justice among the wives and the ability to take care of and tend to the wives. If a person fears that he will not do justice, then he may only many one wife in addition to having slaves. The practice of the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) indicates and stresses that. When he died, he had nine wives. And Allaah says about him: {Indeed in the Messenger of Allaah you have a good example to follow}, [soorah al-Ahzaab, Aayah 21]. The Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) made it clear to his Nation that it was allowed for him to have more than four wives. Therefore, following his example on this point would mean taking four wives or less. Beyond four wives is something that is specific for the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) only. Shaykh Ibn Baaz Fataawa al-Mar.ah <b>There is no contradiction in the verses regarding polygamy</b> Question: Concerning polygyny, it is stated in the Qur.aan: <b>{If you fear that you will not be able to deal justly [with more then one wife], than [marry] only one}, [soorah an-Nisaa., Aayah 3].</b> However, in another place, it states: <b>{You will never be able to do perfect justice between your wives even if it is your ardent desire}, [soorah an-Nisaa., Aayah 129].</b> In the first verse, the condition of being just among the wives is stated while in the second it makes it clear that the condition of justice could never be met. Does this mean that the first verse is abrogated and that it is not allowed to many more than one woman since the condition of justice cannot be fulfilled? Benefit us, may Allaah reward you. Response: There is no contradiction between the two verses. There is also no abrogation by one verse of the other. The justice that is mentioned in the first verse is the justice within one's ability, which is related to being fair in division of time and in maintenance. As for being just with respect to love and sexual relations, this is not within one's ability. This is what is being referred to in the verse: {You will never be able to do perfect justice between your wives even if it is your ardent desire}, [soorah an-Nisaa., Aayah 129]. In a Hadeeth about the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) ‘Aa.ishah stated: "The Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) used to divide his time between his wives and he was fair. He used to say: ((O Allaah, that is my division with respect to what I have control over. Do not blame me for what You control and over which I have no control)). This was recorded by Abu Daawood, at-Tirmidhee, an-Nasaa.ee, Ibn Maajah. It was graded Saheeh by Ibn Hibbaan and al-Haakim. Shaykh Ibn Baaz Fataawa al-Mar.ah I personally have been in Polygany 3 times The first time I can say I was "following my desires" trying to see what it would be like to have two wives. I was intrigued by the ideal. The sister was a non-muslim at first, and I didn't take the time to teach her, rather there was no time because I needed to get married in a hurry before I commited Zina with this women. I really was on my desires, she took shahada and put on a khimaar and Jilbaab but really didn't stay in Islam but 2 mounths. her mom found out she became a muslim, and on top of that married a man who had another wife. subsequently her mom talked her out of it. She left Islam shortly thereafter. I never seen or heard from her again. I had some money so I thought that would be good enought to sustain more wives. But the trials are enormous. theres jelousy which arose from it. managing the finances and a host of other matters which I wasn't prepared for, also I was Immature at that time. The second time was a quick marriage to a sister in order to help her she had been married 4 times and had three children with no money and a host of other problems. but we were not a good match and the marriage failed miserably, due to us not fearing Allah regarding each others rights. We both worked long hours and didn't have time to nurture the relationship. NOT enough Deen either, the sister had grown children, with children,whose own marriages failed. And they moved into the home with us so it was a mess. The last time I did it right! again to safeguard my chastity and prevent myself from Zina. because when I was in college as a non-muslim I was use to having 2 or 3 girl friends at a time so I natrually had a thing for the ladies. And theres a great deal of fitnah in College to maintain ones modesty. I give a great deal of praise to my First and today only wife of 23 years who put up with alot of crazy immature antics from me in those years. And I dont praise anyone After Allah. but she was a rock. I learned a great deal from my experiences in polygany. that it is for a knowledgable person who has a great deal of patience, and knows how to faness his wives. meaning he's not uptight, He must own property and in most cases due to the level of ones wives keep them apart because the daughters of adam have a natural jelousy- It can be blameworthy, or praisworthy-meaning- she loves her husband so much that she's not willing to share. But the wisdom behind polygany is that the sister has to only care for her husband half the time- less responsibility on her. I learned something else that women have to be brought up with the ideal that husbands and wives are not each others property, we all belong to Allah and He has laid down rights and duties to allow marriage to go smoothly, but of course not free from test and trials. thats where uprightness and taqwa come in. Also one has the have the Tawfeeq(help from Allah) to weather the storm. Because todays Ummah have alot of non-muslim ideals regarding the family structure and how to safeguard ones family. Both the Husband and the wife are Shepards of the falimy and both will be held accountable Yawmul Qiyyamah. The last matter I learned from my experiences is that a man who wish to live in polygany must be able to deal justly with those in his care. as it relates to his time, and housing and clothing etc. NOT equally, because one family may have; say four children and the wife, another family may only have the wife... yet they are still one Family. Than you have other scinarios which can take place in the family like the trial of working spouses. will they reliquish some of their rights to help out with bills etc.? Do they have to? if not why? when she is allowed to work in the first place. and what if the wife is wealthy how much of that husbands maintanance is reqired? and what if the wife has no need or desire for her husbands mantanance? All these issues require Fataawa from the Rabbaniyoon, (the Nurturing Scholars of Islam.) mere experiences have no real knowledgable asset to offer the Ummah regarding this issue. The real story should be "How to be successful at Polygany" because even the salaf of this deen had some marital problems. Some sahaabas were married alot of times, and our mothers(The Wives of the Prophet) showed some jelousy at times. Yet they never came out against Polygamy nor did they try to find new ways to sercumvent the established way like todays late-commers to islam have tried... and Im not saying anyone here is trying to do that but these people they are out there" The polygamy haters"amoungst women and men muslims and non-muslims alike. But this issues has already been delt with there are a host of fataawa on this issue. and Finally Our prophet said" there is not a Prophet or messenger except they informed their nation about all matters which would bring benefit and all matters which would cause harm to them" reported by at-Tirmithee My last statement is <b>Al-Hamdullillahi rabbil alameen</b>
04-04-2007, 02:04 AM
Quote:The real story should be "How to be successful at Polygany" because even the salaf of this deen had some marital problems. Some sahaabas were married alot of times, and our mothers(The Wives of the Prophet) showed some jelousy at times. Yet they never came out against Polygamy nor did they try to find new ways to sercumvent the established way like todays late-commers to islam have tried... and Im not saying anyone here is trying to do that but these people they are out there" The polygamy haters"amoungst women and men muslims and non-muslims alike. But this issues has already been delt with there are a host of fataawa on this issue. and Finally Our prophet said" there is not a Prophet or messenger except they informed their nation about all matters which would bring benefit and all matters which would cause harm to them" reported by at-Tirmithee My last statement is <b>Al-Hamdullillahi rabbil alameen</b> akhi, masha'Allah, if this post is in reference to the questionnaire and anthology, i think you are misunderstanding the purpose of the above-mentioned project. the purpose is <b>NOT</b> to add to the negative, biased view of polygyny in Islam already being propagated in the world. <b>THE POINT IS TO SHED A POSITIVE LIGHT ON POLYGYNY IN THE SHADE OF THE QUR'AAN AND SUNNAH, BY FOCUSING ON THE PERSONAL EXPERIENCES OF THOSE WITHIN OUR UMMAH WHO HAVE BEEN SUCCESSFUL AT ESTABLISHING AND MAINTAINING POLYGYNOUS MARRIAGES</b>. And may Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala guide us in our affairs and keep us upon the Straight Path. Ameen. wassalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, sister aneesa |
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