WHY MOTHER TERESA SHOULD NOT BE A SAINT

[Curious Christian]

Wel...


Read the Catechism about Mary.


To claim that Catholics worship Mary is bearing false witness. Period.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.

No need to get defensive. Im not trying to make myself "feel better" since I dont feel bad for myself to begin with. I guess we are all saying the same thing to you: Islam doesnt allow for worship of anything other than Allah. You told me in a private message that your intention of being on this forum is to learn about Islam, so I guess if you take time and reflect on what brother Wael and the others are clearly pointing out to you then insha Allah you will learn an important lesson.

Peace be with you, SJ!


Everything I say is accompanied with a smile :) I'm not trying to be defensive, I promise!


As a former Catholic, I'm sure you have issues with the Church, but please don't take it out on me.


Although we don't accept each others beliefs, I hope we can at least respect them.


Indeed I joined the forum to learn about Islam & interact with Muslims. I'm happy to hear your views on Christianity but I'd prefer it if no one preached false beliefs about the Christian faith to me as though I'm ignorant.


When I say that Catholics only worship the One True God, you guys immediately turn around & call us idolaters. That hurts because firstly it's not true & secondly it's like you're calling me a liar.


Alhamdulilah, Jesus Christ is right beside me & I rest on His shoulder (spiritually speaking).

I am sorry FHC but there is alot of polytheism in Christianity especially in the Catholic Church.


This is plain worship to Mary FHC, worship to other that God Almighty and so <b>this is polytheism</b>

Peace be with you Wael!


I have a feeling you don't intend on reading the Catechism (as CC rightly recommended), therefore, I'll respond to your post & comment on all those wonderful quotes which truly moved me. I'm just a little swamped with Uni work at the moment & can't keep up with you guys.


Let me just say quickly that I have a huge devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Catholics only worship God. We honour Our Lady as the greatest saint & creature to have ever lived.


In a way, Mother Mary is to Catholics what the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is to Muslims.


More on this later.


God bless you both!

[wel_mel_2]

Wel...


Read the Catechism about Mary.

Why dont you read what the Bible teaches regarding worship and honoring other than God?


Salam


Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Let me just say quickly that I have a huge devotion
to the Blessed Virgin Mary. Catholics only worship
God. We honour
Our Lady as the greatest saint & creature to have ever lived.

What bowing down to the images of Mary has anything to do with <b>honoring</b> her? What praying to Mary has anything to do with your <b>devotion</b> to her?


What I really feel is, that you guys do worship those saints but you are just using different terms to describe your actions. (i.e instead of <b>worship</b> you use<b> honor</b>) but the acts of worship are clearly seen in your devotion to her.


Some people “Catholics of course” begged Mary to save their children from some kind of sickness, then when their children were healed; <b>they truly thanked and worshipped Mary instead of the One who created her</b>!! Can you see the danger?


Plus as I pointed in my previous post, you have millions of prayers a second being offered to Mary. People in Mexico, Russia, Europe, America, Philippines and all over the world, are praying the Rosary, asking Mary <b>to be there at the hour of their death</b>, asking her <b>to guide them</b>, <b>help them</b>, <b>teach them</b>, <b>secure for them eternal redemption </b> (something catholic believes that even Jesus did not do) and <b>imploring her to come dwell in their hearts</b> as though she was able to fulfill all these requests! Subhan Allah…


You and your fellow Catholic may deny that Mary is a god (or any other saints that you guys pray to) but by asking all these things of her, <b>she would have to be God to do them</b>, and since she is not God according to your beliefs, <b>then you should direct your prayers and supplications to the ONLY ONE WHO HEARS IT
.</b>


Salam


Wael

[Curious Christian]

Wel...


It is called the "communion of the saints." We we are made heirs with Christ we are made sons and daughters of God. Not only do we have a heavenly Father but also a Mother and brothers and sisters.


It is common for Christians to ask other Christians to pray for them. I might ask my co-worker to pray for me if I am sick etc.


Well, we believe that our brothers and sisters who have passed away aren't dead at all but are alive and in communion with God. Why would I stop asking for my brothers and sisters to pray for me simply because their phycial bodies ceased breathing?

Why dont you read what the Bible teaches regarding worship and honoring other than God?

A) You sound like a "Bible Alone" Protestant. What is the bible Wel? You are trying to use the bible in this case to back up your false notions. It is funny that you now try to use it as an authorotative voice because before on this very board you have tried to discredit it and claim that it is not inspired! Which is it?


B) But since you asked...here is some scripture on the communion of saints...


Commuion of the Saints and the scriptures


Mary the Mother of God and the scriptures

[SisterJennifer]

FHC,


Hi again, I dont have any "issues" or "grudges" with the church. As you said, to each there own.


If I, or anybody else here is trying to open your eyes to anything, it is only the fact that God doesnt forgive worship of other than him. Catholic or Muslim, this is the case. I dont feel like that is an issue to take lightly, At least if many people are trying to open your eyes to something, dont grasp at any straw and accuse us of "taking something out on you" You say people are attacking you for your beliefs, but in reality, people are speaking out of love and concern for you. Im sorry if thats hard for you.


I know, maybe I am mistaken, and please forgive me if I am, but this is the way it seems. You say you want to learn, but you do more time preaching and arguing than you do thinking and listening. If you had a classroom of students like this, it will be hard to teach or learn anything.


Nobody is calling you a liar, nobody is trying to attack you. I know its hard when there is difference of belief, but please try not to take it in personal way. Really we have to take the issue of ploytheism seriously.


May Allah firgive us and save us from pride and guide us all to the straight path, Ameen.


Take care :)

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.


Assalamu alykum, SJ!


Thanks so much for your post. What a pleasant surprise :) I was dreading your reply because I had a bad feeling you were on the verge of crucifying me :lol: I couldn't have been more wrong!


I appreciate your honesty & kindness. You keep me humble, Sister :D Exactly what I need during Lent.


I promise I'll try to chill out from now on.


Assalamu alykum, Wael!


Your questions/thoughts on the BVM are quite fascinating. Stay tuned! I'll be with you soon.


For the time being, let me say that I love & honour Mary just as Jesus Christ does. She's my mother in Heaven but she's in no way divine.


May Allah (SWT) bless you both.

[Dan]

FHC,


Hi again, I dont have any "issues" or "grudges" with the church. As you said, to each there own.


If I, or anybody else here is trying to open your eyes to anything, it is only the fact that God doesnt forgive worship of other than him. Catholic or Muslim, this is the case. I dont feel like that is an issue to take lightly, At least if many people are trying to open your eyes to something, dont grasp at any straw and accuse us of "taking something out on you" You say people are attacking you for your beliefs, but in reality, people are speaking out of love and concern for you. Im sorry if thats hard for you.


I know, maybe I am mistaken, and please forgive me if I am, but this is the way it seems. You say you want to learn, but you do more time preaching and arguing than you do thinking and listening. If you had a classroom of students like this, it will be hard to teach or learn anything.


Nobody is calling you a liar, nobody is trying to attack you. I know its hard when there is difference of belief, but please try not to take it in personal way. Really we have to take the issue of ploytheism seriously.


May Allah firgive us and save us from pride and guide us all to the straight path, Ameen.


Take care :)

Bismillah


As Salam alaikum


Ameen!


MashAllah Ukhti...


As Salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:


Nice to discuss with you again CC, i bet you missed me :D

It is common for Christians to ask other Christians to pray for them. I might ask my co-worker to pray for me if I am sick etc.

It is common for Muslims too, we too pray <b>FOR</b> each other, but we don’t pray <b>TO</b> each other.

Well, we believe that our brothers and sisters who have passed away aren't dead at all but are alive and in communion with God. Why would I stop asking for my brothers and sisters to pray for me simply because their phycial bodies ceased breathing?

Yeah, here is the point, how do you know that these people can hear each and every supplicant at the same time when you call upon them? Tell me; were your brothers and sisters <i>(the saints)</i> able to hear your prayers <b>when they were alive </b> if you call upon them <b>in secret</b>?

A) You sound like a "Bible Alone" Protestant. What is the bible Wel? You are trying to use the bible in this case to back up your false notions. It is funny that you now try to use it as an authorotative voice because before on this very board you have tried to discredit it and claim that it is not inspired! Which is it?

I am asking <b>YOU</b> to use it when trying to prove any of your points, anything in the catechism should match perfectly with what is written in the Bible, <b>but definitely this is not the case</b>. So before asking me to use the catechism, you should see what your<b> FIRST </b> book of authority said about these issues.


For example, your Bible <b>NEVER</b> called Mary <i>“the mother of God”</i> but you have no problem to give her such title; again you are calling her<i> “Queen of heaven” </i> <b>which was a title given to a pagan goddess in the old days</b>, who gave you the authority to give titles to those pious people when God Himself didn’t?


So what I am trying to say is that you should make clear distinction between honoring those great people and praying to them, because <b>the moment you call upon them it is considered to be an act of polytheism</b>, and the best way to honor those great people is to follow their example in your daily life.


Salam


Wael

[Faith Hope Charity]

To the Sacred Heart of Jesus, through the Immaculate Heart of Mary.


Peace be with you!

It is common for Muslims too, we too pray <b>FOR</b> each other, but we don’t pray <b>TO</b> each other.

Hmmm... define prayer???


You see, Catholics believe there are souls (Saints) in Heaven, whereas Muslims don't. Just think of Christian prayer as writing a letter to a friend.

Yeah, here is the point, how do you know that these people can hear each and every supplicant at the same time when you call upon them? Tell me; were your brothers and sisters <i>(the saints)</i> able to hear your prayers <b>when they were alive </b> if you call upon them <b>in secret</b>?

They hear because they're in Heaven. Nope, they couldn't hear us while they were on earth.

I am asking <b>YOU</b> to use it when trying to prove any of your points, anything in the catechism should match perfectly with what is written in the Bible, <b>but definitely this is not the case</b>. So before asking me to use the catechism, you should see what your<b> FIRST </b> book of authority said about these issues.

We don't use the Holy Bible as a weapon to prove anything. That's not what it's for.


The Communion of Saints is biblical. If you ask nicely, I'll give you the references :) (actually I think I have already in this thread).

For example, your Bible <b>NEVER</b> called Mary <i>“the mother of God”</i> but you have no problem to give her such title; again you are calling her<i> “Queen of heaven” </i> <b>which was a title given to a pagan goddess in the old days</b>, who gave you the authority to give titles to those pious people when God Himself didn’t?

It's fitting to call Mary the Mother of God because she's the Mother of Jesus who is a Divine Person. Do you refer to your mother as, "the woman who gave me half my genetic code"???

So what I am trying to say is that you should make clear distinction between honoring those great people and praying to them, because <b>the moment you call upon them it is considered to be an act of polytheism</b>, and the best way to honor those great people is to follow their example in your daily life.

Okay, let me try something else :lol: When we pray to them, we're really praying with them, because the only thing they can do for us is present our prayers to God. Saints aren't miracle workers. God performs miracles through the Saints.


All the Holy Angels & Saints... please pray for us.