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Bismillah
"we have to follow the Qur'an because it's Allah's revelation; we know the Qur'an is Allah's revelation because Allah has revealed it to us in the Qur'an"
Like Jesus is God but not the Father who is God but not the Holy Spirit who is also God... in different places at the same time....
Going into the why the Qur'an is Allah's revelation... come on... I know you know more about Islam that what you stated. If not, there are many threads dealing with the issue. I'm pretty sure that we would only stray even further from the topic...
Where IS Welmel? :)
"The essential part of worship remains the same before & after changes are made to liturgical/devotional/local practices."
Obviously not a big deal for you... I guess bc Jesus never actually did any of these actions verbatim so they are subject to change.
"At the end of the day, Catholic doctrines aren't hurting anybody, so please just let it be."
That's okay by me... I've been letting them "be" for years now. :)
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02-24-2007, 11:02 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-24-2007, 11:04 AM by Faith Hope Charity.)
In the Name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.
May the peace of Christ be with you!
Quote:"we have to follow the Qur'an because it's Allah's revelation; we know the Qur'an is Allah's revelation because Allah has revealed it to us in the Qur'an"
Like Jesus is God but not the Father who is God but not the Holy Spirit who is also God... in different places at the same time....
Hmmm... not quite the same thing. The Qur'an'is near & dear to your heart so that's enough out of me.
I just invented this analogy - a bit weak but hopefully not flawed.
The Most Holy Trinity in human terms:
Dan + Dan's wife + Dan's child = THREE distinct members belonging to the ONE family. All THREE are EQUAL & possess the same HUMAN nature. Their bond on earth is ETERNAL.
If I can get it, I'm sure you can, Dan!
Quote:Going into the why the Qur'an is Allah's revelation... come on... I know you know more about Islam that what you stated. If not, there are many threads dealing with the issue. I'm pretty sure that we would only stray even further from the topic...
Humour me for a second... you only need to look at the foundation of your faith to understand the Most Holy Trinity: Allah (SWT), His Revelations, & the Qur'an are distinct but together form the basis of Islam. The three cannot be separated when determining Islamic beliefs.
I'll cut it out now.
There's no such thing as one topic per thread anymore - hehe!
Quote:Where IS Welmel?
Tell me about it! I miss him! He told me he'll be a little busy over the next couple of weeks. God bless him.
Quote:"The essential part of worship remains the same before & after changes are made to liturgical/devotional/local practices."
Obviously not a big deal for you... I guess bc Jesus never actually did any of these actions verbatim so they are subject to change.
Jesus Christ, the Incarnate Word, is central to all our beliefs & practices. His Bride, the Church, remains faithful to her spouse & her prescriptions always lead us to Him. He then leads us to His Father in the Spirit - The Most Holy Trinity - our ultimate end!
Quote:"At the end of the day, Catholic doctrines aren't hurting anybody, so please just let it be."
That's okay by me... I've been letting them "be" for years now.
:) :peace: :thumb: :) :peace: :thumb: :) :peace: :thumb:
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Bismillah
Faith Hope Charity
Peace
Quote:The Most Holy Trinity in human terms:
Dan + Dan's wife + Dan's child = THREE distinct members belonging to the ONE family. All THREE are EQUAL & possess the same HUMAN nature. Their bond on earth is ETERNAL.
No wonder not many can understand by logic or common sense the <b>holy</b> trinity. :blink: Don't be offended, just a thought that came up. :)
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Maybe it is important to clarify what a "saint" really is...
A Saint is one who has been sanctified by the blood of Christ. Saints are people who lived perfect lives...but by the washing of their baptism and the Grace of the Lord they are made holy. There are more saints in heaven right now than we know....not all of them are canonized.
FHC made a great point about communion of the saints....Is Mohammed Dead? Or is he alive?
PS...I really like the new layout.
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02-25-2007, 10:07 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2007, 10:09 AM by Faith Hope Charity.)
In the Name of the Most Holy Trinity...
Assalamu alykum, umm Zachariah :peace: No offence taken. I have come to the conclusion that no Muslim will ever be able to comprehend the fact that God is: Father Son Holy Spirit, because it would be like me trying to comprehend the idea that Jesus Christ is not the Incarnate Son of God - IMPOSSIBLE!!! :hamdulila:
Peace be with you Curious Christian :peace: My petition has been answered! Thanks for coming to my assistance :) Considering this is predominantly a Catholic thread, allow me to take this opportunity to wish you all the best in your RCIA. You are constantly in my thoughts & prayers. May your Patron Saint always inspire you to live a holy & faithful life in Christ.
God bless you both.
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Quote:I have come to the conclusion that no Muslim will ever be able to comprehend the fact that God is: Father Son Holy Spirit,
The first pillar of Islam:
<b>There is no God but Allah </b> and Muhammad is the mesenger of Allah.
of course we cannot accept polytheistc beliefs and practices, no matter how you try to paint it up with lengthy documents that attempt to disguise it as monotheism. Alhumdulilah if finally you see this. :) Take care.
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Quote:Peace be with you Curious Christian My petition has been answered! Thanks for coming to my assistance Considering this is predominantly a Catholic thread, allow me to take this opportunity to wish you all the best in your RCIA. You are constantly in my thoughts & prayers. May your Patron Saint always inspire you to live a holy & faithful life in Christ.
Thanks. Easter cannot come soon enough! I recently had my first sacrament of reconcilliation...also my wife and I had our marriage convalidated as well. I simply cannot wait.
My patron saint is St. Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei.
In Christ and Our Lady,
Sean (real name)
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02-26-2007, 03:21 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-26-2007, 03:23 AM by Faith Hope Charity.)
May the peace of Christ, the Son of God, who is One with the Father & the Holy Spirit, be with you, SisterJennifer.
Quote:The first pillar of Islam:
<b>There is no God but Allah </b> and Muhammad is the mesenger of Allah.
of course we cannot accept polytheistc beliefs and practices, no matter how you try to paint it up with lengthy documents that attempt to disguise it as monotheism. Alhumdulilah if finally you see this. :) Take care.
There's no polytheism in Christianity, darl!
No need to put my beliefs/practices down in order to make yourself feel better. Each to their own.
I never asked anyone to accept Christianity. If the Son of God wasn't able to draw every human heart towards Him while He was staring them in the face what makes anyone think I can? I've now realized that I was asking way too much of you to simply comprehend Catholic truths, let alone embrace them. Ask & you shall receive!
Alhamdulilah!
Thanks! You take care too :)
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Bismillah:
Quote:There's no polytheism in Christianity, darl!
I am sorry FHC but there is alot of polytheism in Christianity especially in the Catholic Church.
Look, The Bible and history clearly revealed that there is <b>only ONE GOD with very unique attributes</b>: So there is only one God. but when a person or a religion ascribes these attributes to someone or something other than the God of creation, then they become <b>POLYTHEISTIC</b>. and this is most surely what we find in the practices of the Catholics...
for example, In the Catholic Church Mary is very clearly considered to be holy . now the good catholic person prays to Mary ten times to one every time he says a Rosary. <b>Who is preeminent: Mary or God the Father?</b> You believes that Mary can hear your prayer <b>and at the same time hear the prayer of another Catholic a thousand miles away</b>. If that is true, <b>then Mary is omnipresent!</b> (<b>an attribute of God</b>). You believes that Mary can discern the intent behind the repetitious prayer you recites. If that is true, <b>then Mary is omniscient</b>! Now then, <b>Mary is OMNIPOTENT, OMNISCIENCE, and OMNIPRESENT just like the Creator</b> . Mary then, according to Roman Catholic teaching, is A GOD! dont think that i am a crazy FHC, just have a look at what official catholics said about Mary...
Quote:"God has entrusted the keys and treasures of heaven to Mary." Thomas Aquinas
Quote:"Who can worthily thank thee and adequately praise thee, oh Blessed Virgin, who by thy fiat has saved a lost world." St. Augustine
Quote:"The foundation of all our confidence is found in the Blessed Virgin Mary. God has committed to her the treasury of all good things, in order that everyone may know that <b>through her are obtained every hope</b>, every grace, <b>and all salvation</b>. For this is His will: That we obtain everything through Mary." Pope Pius IX
Now Christians obtain salvation through Mary, not through Jesus.
Quote:"Sinners receive pardon by the intercession of Mary alone." St. John Chrysostom
Quote:"No one ever finds Christ but with and through Mary. Whoever seeks Christ apart from Mary seeks Him in vain." St. Bonaventure
Quote:"All those who seek <b>Mary’s protection will be saved for all eternity</b>." Pope Benedict XV
Quote:"What will it cost you, oh Mary, to hear our prayer? What will it cost you <b>to save us</b>? Has not Jesus placed in your hands all the treasures of His grace and mercy? You sit crowned Queen at the right hand of your son: your dominion reaches as far as the heavens and to you are subject the earth and all creatures dwelling thereon. Your dominion reaches even down into the abyss of hell, and you alone, oh Mary, save us from the hands of Satan." Pope Pius Xl
Quote:"Mary, not one of thy devout servants has ever perished: may I, too, Be saved!" Pope Benedict XV
This is plain worship to Mary FHC, worship to other that God Almighty and so <b>this is polytheism</b>
Salam
Wael.
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Hi FHC
No need to get defensive. Im not trying to make myself "feel better" since I dont feel bad for myself to begin with. I guess we are all saying the same thing to you: Islam doesnt allow for worship of anything other than Allah. You told me in a private message that your intention of being on this forum is to learn about Islam, so I guess if you take time and reflect on what brother Wael and the others are clearly pointing out to you then insha Allah you will learn an important lesson.
Take care.
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