The Fetus Rights in Islam

[Faith Hope Charity]

Hi Wael,


Thanks for everything!


I agree with most of Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi's statement :) Truthfully, I have strong reservations about artificial contraception & any form abortion. I will not budge!


You will be happy to know that I would prefer Muslim women populate the world with more Muslims rather than prevent conception from taking place or seeking abortion at any stage :)


I urge you to talk any woman you know out of having an abortion, under all circumstances (Yes! Including rape - which is a very rare case - less than 1% of abortions performed result from rape! As hard as it is, we need to acknowledge the baby's innocence as well as the miraculous gift of pro-creation).


May Allah open His arms to all the souls that have exited their mother's womb in such an awful way.


God bless.

[Ruggedtouch]

Hi Wael,


Thanks for everything!


I agree with most of Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi's statement :) Truthfully, I have strong reservations about artificial contraception & any form abortion. I will not budge!

The attempt by such zealots to impose their will on others as they threaten women into becoming involuntary incubators is a testament to the weakness of the 'moral' position they would impose on others. Were it valid, persuasion would eliminate their lust for governmental coercion.

You will be happy to know that I would prefer Muslim women populate the world with more Muslims rather than prevent conception from taking place or seeking abortion at any stage :)

Well then you’re in luck. The fact is, Muslim women <i>are</i> populating the world with more Muslims. However, I would proffer the notion that in a world of dwindling resources that is clearly not a net positive for humanity.


Look, let’s be honest, to propagate the realities that so define the Muslim world: violence, hatred, poverty, un-treated disease, ignorance, early death, and of course, leadership toward these goals will do nothing to further humanity. France has a booming (literally), Arab/Muslim population that suffers from revulsion of democratic ideals and principles, is wholly incapable of competing in a relevant, technological world, who blames the West for their inability to prosper and in fact, shuts itself off from its host culture and society while screaming out “Racism”.


France is dying (and her cities are being burned to the ground), while being dragged into the abyss. Hooray for Muslims.

I urge you to talk any woman you know out of having an abortion, under all circumstances (Yes! Including rape - which is a very rare case - less than 1% of abortions performed result from rape! As hard as it is, we need to acknowledge the baby's innocence as well as the miraculous gift of pro-creation).
May Allah open His arms to all the souls that have exited their mother's womb in such an awful way.


God bless.

The extremist nutters on one end of the spectrum mewl that a single fertilized cell is a person and advocate that the State seize control of the womb at that point. On the other end, there are those would have it that personhood is not achieved until birth and the State should have no dominion until then. The vast majority of rational Americans recognize that personhood evolves during gestation as brain waves are first evidenced and independent viability achieved. Thus, we in the U.S. have had the protections of Rowe vs Wade which is a reasonable compromise.


The fact that there cannot be consensus does not dictate that we mindlessly leap to an absolutist proscription. As with most contested matters of adjudication, we are dealing with conflicting recognized rights: a woman to control her womb, a fetus to develop into an individual. Rowe vs Wade has delineated the specifics of such a compromise, recognizing as a superior matter of privacy the right of a woman to control a pregnancy before that zygote/embryo/fetus has become a viable entity, and granting that fetus a protected status once its development has reached a definitive stage. There is always a nebulous area in between that can be contested, but to legislate either one extremist position or the other is not an equitable approach.

[Faith Hope Charity]

Ruggedtouch, considering this is an Islamic forum, I'm going to be mindful of others & not get into a discussion/argument with you over abortion, considering neither one of us is a Muslim. I'll reply only this once so you don't think I'm ignoring your comments. Please feel free to send me a private message :)

The attempt by such zealots to impose their will on others as they threaten women into becoming involuntary incubators is a testament to the weakness of the 'moral' position they would impose on others.

If you refuse to believe that a child is a blessing from God, then at least acknowledge that they are nature's gift. How you can think that a baby is a burden to its mother? It's simply beyond me!


I'll even speak in a language you'll appreciate... No other animal or creature on earth besides the human being harms its unborn child. You'd think the more we evolve, the smarter we'd get! As far as I'm aware, science has even backed up the fact that from the moment of conception a new life is formed.

Look, let’s be honest, to propagate the realities that so define the Muslim world: violence, hatred, poverty, un-treated disease, ignorance, early death, and of course, leadership toward these goals will do nothing to further humanity.

Mate, those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones!

Thus, we in the U.S. have had the protections of Rowe vs Wade which is a reasonable compromise.

Between Wade & Rowe, God & reason are nowhere to be found :(

recognizing as a superior matter of privacy the right of a woman to control a pregnancy before that zygote/embryo/fetus has become a viable entity

Call a spade a spade! It's a baby for crying out loud!


<b>Killing the innocent baby to save the innocent mother =</b> All life is equal! We should never try to obtain good by committing evil. The end doesn't justify the means.


I'm sure you're tired of listening to me babble on :rant: This topic has inspired me to upload my very first (amateur) video on YouTube! A picture is worth a thousand words!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lH8VcT5Wg-s


*WARNING* Disturbing Images :o

[Faith Hope Charity]

Hi & peace to you all!


Here are some snippets from my friend's post on abortion...

<i>Im not 486- some thoughts.</i>
If the Jesus story happened in this day and age, i wonder if the saviour would have made it out of the womb alive....Statisitics show that in 2003,that a whopping 84,000 women in this country had abortions... after looking at those stats the odds dont look so good.


I think that the Jesus story is a poingant reminder of how important our life choices can be and how their ramifications reach far beyond the individual. We do ourselves a great disservice if we think that terminations are for the common good...


The strength and bravery of a woman in a heavily patricarchal society, in world that frowned upon pregnancy out of wedlock to the point of occasioning death on the mother shows us that, anything is possible if we have conviction and compassion. We are fortunate enough to live in a society where support is available, we have a voice, we can make things work in our favour despite the dreary forecast.


That one child saved, Jesus, has had a huge impact on the entire world. His influnece has been so profound and far reaching... so i think imagine among those 84,000 souls lost in 2003, we would have killed a possible Mozart or a hypothetical Mandela or a blessed Buddha... think of how many gifted souls we are depriving the world of.


I wonder what it is that makes them (women/ couples) think they cannot have a child or give birth, they must be hugely profound to warrant the consideration of a termination. The idea that "it just isnt the right time for me/us right now" is not enough in my mind. I know i sound overly self righteous and naive and i tend to preach a fair bit without supporting data or any real life expirience- but as a poet, and i call myself that with much reluctance (due to lack of real talent!), i say to hell with all that. I choose to support my arguement with a zeal for life, in a society "growing" through destruction, I choose to challenge the populus.


I want to cry out for all the lives lost. Think about the public pouring of sympathy to the shores of Indonesia when the Tsunami hit and upwards of 100,000 people were killed... Isnt this the same in some small way or worse because its self inflicted and not anatural disaster? Cant anyone see what a waste of human life Abortion is? Am i mad?


Its funny we abolished Capital Punishment in the 50's for those deemed unfit to be part of society- so we took a stance and said we have compassion for those who kill and rape and do wrong. But then how can we allow the termination of innocent lives without so much as a bat of an eyelash?


I think i aim this particular entry at people who are flippant in their choices. The paradox i feel with this situation is that more often than not life and the choice to preserve it is overlooked by ones life and the choice to preserve the way they lead it. So effectively it becomes life vs. lifestyle...


I personally don’t view having a "child" (not carrying just a "fertilised egg") as giving up my rights; i view fertility as a privilege and an honour. That's where the buck stops.

Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself :thumb:

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

<b>Killing the innocent baby to save the innocent mother =</b> All life is equal! We should never try to obtain good by committing evil. The end doesn't justify the means.

<b>Isn’t the whole idea of Salvation in Christendom based on killing innocent person? </b>


By saving the mother you are giving her chance to take care of her other children, or maybe her old mother or father, or maybe her paralyzed husband etc etc... but to save the child means to add more calamities to the situation.


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit

<b>Isn’t the whole idea of Salvation in Christendom based on killing innocent person? </b>

Yes... with the innocent person's consent!

By saving the mother you are giving her chance to take care of her other children, or maybe her old mother or father, or maybe her paralyzed husband etc etc... but to save the child means to add more calamities to the situation.

If you save the mother, on her way home from the hospital she might die in a tragic car accident & then what? I guess her other children, her old parents & her paralysed husband will have to fend for themselves. Alternatively, they can place their trust in God & His Divine Providence!


May the peace of Christ be in your heart always.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Yes... with the innocent person's consent!

And that's why he was crying loud to <b>HIS GOD </b> to save him? And that's why he was <b>disappointed of God’s decision</b>? I know that you may come up with different interpretation but as I told you earlier, we can interpret the Bible in many different ways <b>because most of its verses are not clear, ambiguous</b>, and the worst thing is <b>that the Christians interpretations of the BIBLES
are more confusing</b>.

If you save the mother, on her way home from the hospital she might die in a tragic car accident & then what? I guess her other children, her old parents & her paralysed husband will have to fend for themselves. Alternatively, they can place their trust in God & His Divine Providence!

This is called destiny!! In such case there is no doubt that God Almighty is going to take care of the situation. <b>But when it is a matter of choice between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus </b> (who does not come yet to this world i.e UNBORN
) then we have to go for the lesser damage rather than the greater one.


Salam


Wael.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:


I found this article to be very interesting... by the way it is written by Non Muslims (i guess they are Chrsitians)

This book by an eminent Christian philosopher, Francis Beckwith, supports the traditional Christian pro-life position based on those two main premises:<b> that human life begins at conception (fertilization) and that it is wrong to take this life except where the mother’s actual life is in danger
</b>

full article here:


Answering Genesis.


Also you may check this out... VERY INFORMATIVE:

First of all, we would like to state that abortion is forbidden in Islam whether it be in the early or late stages of pregnancy. The degree of sin incurred varies according to the stage of pregnancy, so that less sin is incurred if the abortion takes place during the early stages, while it becomes increasingly haram (prohibited by Allah) as the pregnancy advances. When the pregnancy reaches the 120th day, abortion is totally forbidden and is considered a form of murder that requires compensation to be paid. The only condition under which abortion is allowed is when there is an actual threat to the life of the mother that is confirmed by a medical examination that reveals that if the pregnancy advances any further, the mother may die.

Full article and other related links here:


ISLAMONLINE.net


Salam


Wael.

[Faith Hope Charity]

In the name of God - Father Son Holy Spirit.

And that's why he was crying loud to <b>HIS GOD </b> to save him? And that's why he was <b>disappointed of God’s decision</b>?

Wael, we've already been through this. Psalm 22 tells the story of a just man who is persecuted but will win in the end & the name of the Lord will be praised. It also describes the harsh treatment, insults, & mockery that the Man endured. If you read the next few verses of St Mark's Gospel, he recalls 2 events as evidence of the success of Christ's mission - the tearing of the temple veil & a Gentile's act of faith in Jesus' divinity.

we can interpret the Bible in many different ways <b>because most of its verses are not clear, ambiguous</b>, and the worst thing is <b>that the Christians interpretations of the BIBLES
are more confusing</b>.

Let our Pope do his job!

This is called destiny!! In such case there is no doubt that God Almighty is going to take care of the situation. <b>But when it is a matter of choice between the life of the mother and the life of the fetus </b> (who does not come yet to this world i.e UNBORN
) then we have to go for the lesser damage rather than the greater one.

You obviously didn't watch my video on YouTube :( Unborn doesn't mean non-existent.


I read a few articles on Islamonline. Thanks for the link :)


Do all Muslims feel the same? What would happen if a pregnant Muslim in a critical condition refuses to have an abortion & risks her life as a result? Is that considered a sin?

supports the traditional Christian pro-life position ... that it is wrong to take this life except where the mother’s actual life is in danger

This is not, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be Catholic tradition. Thanks be to God! If it ever came down to it, personally, I'd sacrifice my life for the sake of my child's (cf. St John 16:13).


Peace Wael!

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Wael, we've already been through this. Psalm 22 tells the story of a just man who is persecuted but will win in the end & the name of the Lord will be praised. It also describes the harsh treatment, insults, & mockery that the Man endured. If you read the next few verses of St Mark's Gospel, he recalls 2 events as evidence of the success of Christ's mission - the tearing of the temple veil & a Gentile's act of faith in Jesus' divinity.

Oh com on!! Jesus was <b>begging "his God" </b> to let the cup pass away from him, <b>Jesus did not have the power </b> to will it for himself and make the cup pass away from Jesus. it does not sound to me like somebody willingly going to die for your sins.

Let our Pope do his job!

The Pope is only a human being, he is not better than any other human being.

You obviously didn't watch my video on YouTube :( Unborn doesn't mean non-existent.

Yes, I am not saying that the unborn does not exist; I am saying that in Islam if the mother is going to die by delivering her baby, then abortion is allowed. Now you disagree on this, we totally respect your view.

What would happen if a pregnant Muslim in a critical condition refuses to have an abortion & risks her life as a result? Is that considered a sin?

I dont know.. maybe someone else can answer this question. I am not in a position of giving Fatwa :)

personally, I'd sacrifice my life for the sake of my child's

As a personal opinion I will totally respect, but that doesn’t mean that you are right.


Salam


Wael.