The Quran on Human Embryonic Development:

[Curious Christian]

I am sorry to hear about Wel Mel. I don't know if he would want me to pray for his health...so I'll at least hope with my heart that he has a heatly recovery.

[Ruggedtouch]

Bismillah


Who said I was being sacrastic, I m very serious, I think u ve been here (even with a break)long enough to know sarcasm is not my approach and that Alhamdulelah, in any case so long as the poster have a valid point that is worth reading to start with and thus, needs responding, that was not tackled before I do Alhamdulelah. But u r really fun, at least to me. Simply because you are living under the impression that u can come here and dedicate effort in hope to shake Muslims' faith on one hand and deter non Muslims from joing on the other hand. This is fun to me. because being a Muslim is a major blessing, and fills one heart with much content and serenity that is incomparable and can never, again never be attained except thru submitting to Allah. And for non Muslims to join or not, this is not our problem, since the benefit will only return on the given individual and the choice is his/hers to accept the invaluable gift or not.


But your attitude and behaviour as I said in my previous post above is essential to coin a certain notion to those who are seeking to understand how may a group of non muslims may go. However, most of the time you seem to be overtaken - as reflected in your triumphant tone- by putting us down and making us loose a debate. Just for the record, when u receive no replies from Muslims, the case is totally otherwise. Now, refer to the first part of this same post to get the message.


That is all for me here, lest I be hijacking the thread, and Dan may come after me.... :)

Why so paranoid, Muslimah?


You presume a lot. When have I preached anything? I haven’t. I have never claimed that I wish to cause anyone to question their faith. I examine the claims made and I look to see if they are logical and consistent. I don’t poke fun at anyone and I don’t berate anyone who holds beliefs different than mine. I have not been extended the same courtesy by the way. I speak my mind for a number of reasons. I think I make my points calmly, rationally and with little of the intolerance that generally seethes on message boards (including this one). Because I critique ideas doesn’t mean I am intolerant of them – I speak in my realtime life no differently than in my virtual one – and I do my best to engage the topic (which is often heated) without purposely fanning the flames of discord.


I question the concept of faith and also that of reason and everything else that is asserted. I try never to engage in personal attacks but instead focus on the things people believe or submit to me as truths. Why do you presume this is an attempt to cause someone to lose their faith? Why must you perceive this as an attack -- that any questioning at all--even in a forum you enter to defend your beliefs-- is perceived as an attack? Religious faiths have many inconsistencies and I try to understand them. While I don’t personally believe in a religious faith, I have not attacked anyone who presents an alternate opinion.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

A ) I haven't read enough of what Ruggedtouch has written to know that he is an atheist.

Fair enough.

B ) You sound frustrated with this atheist. Is he challenging you?

Challenging me about what???

C ) Why do Muslims cling to this embryo nonsense as proof that their Quran is from God. Don't you have anything else?

It’s not us who ‘cling’ to this embryo (<b>which is not nonsense by the way</b>)… it was few years ago, when a group of men in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia collected all of the verses in the Qur'an which discuss embryology- the growth of the human being in the womb. They said, "Here is what the Qur'an says. Is it the truth?" In essence, they took the advice of the Qur'an: <b>"Ask the men who know." </b> They chose, as it happened, <b>a non-Muslim who is a professor of embryology at the University of Toronto. His name is Keith Moore</b>, and he is the author of textbooks on embryology - <b>a world expert on the subject</b>, NOT A MUSLIM . They invited him to Riyadh and said, "This is what the Qur'an says about your subject. Is it true? What can you tell us?" And he was so surprised at what he found <b>that he changed his textbooks. </b> In fact, in the second edition of one of his books, called <b>Before We Are Born</b>... in the section about the history of embryology, <b>he included some material that was not in the first edition because of what he found in the Qur'an was ahead of its time. </b>


he said that one item in particular, the Qur'an's description of the human being as a "leech-like clot" ('alaqah) at one stage (Surahs al-Hajj 22:5; al-Mu'minun 23:14; and Ghafir 40:67) - was new to him; but when he checked on it, he found that it was true, and so he added it to his book. He said, "I never thought of that before," and he went to the zoology department and asked for a picture of a leech. When he found that it looked just like the human embryo, he decided to include both pictures in one of his textbooks.


So it’s not us who are trying to prove that the Qur’an is God's words by scientific approach, we do not need to do so, the Qur'an proved itself 1400 years ago and it can still stand the test of time and prove itself even today. <b>scientists themselves who are Non Muslims,</b>, who have no reason to lie declared loudly about the Qur’anic truth. In fact, when Prof Moore was asked, "How do you explain this information in the Qur'an?" Dr. Moore's reply was, <b>"It could only have been divinely revealed!"</b>


Now I am not sure if Dr Moore still alive, but if you are truly curious, why don’t you try to contact him and find out about this information by yourself?


Please note that, all of the descriptions in the Qur'an of the appearance of the embryo are of the item when it is still <b>too small to see with the eye</b>; So we cannot be so arrogant to say that <b>"Maybe fourteen centuries ago or more, someone secretly had a microscope and did this research, making no mistakes anywhere. Then he somehow taught Muhammad pbuh and convinced him to put this information in his book. Then he destroyed his equipment and kept it a secret forever".</b> Do you believe that? You really should not unless you bring some proof because it is such a ridiculous theory."

By the way Wel Mel...why do you put so much stock in this embryo stuff (which is proven to be old knowledge) and ignore facts such as this from the Old Testament?

Frst of all nothing was proven here. YOU DID NOT READ GALEN'S ACCOUNT to come up with this conclusion. The missionaries and other enimies of Islam always mistranslate the meaning of the words, "Nut'fah, "'Alaq" and and offer wrong translation of a Qur'anic verses to prove their point.


as regards to the OT... i told you many times that i have no problem in accepting some portions of the Bible to be God's words. but the last and final guidance that we should all follow is the Holy Qur'an.


Salam


Wael

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

I am sorry to hear about Wel Mel. I don't know if he would want me to pray for his health...so I'll at least hope with my heart that he has a heatly recovery.

Thanks for your concern CC, of course you could pray for me... :) i am back now Alhamdulelah feeling much better.


Salam


Wael.

[Curious Christian]

Bismillah:


Thanks for your concern CC, of course you could pray for me... :) i am back now Alhamdulelah feeling much better.


Salam


Wael.

Happy to hear it!

[Curious Christian]

"America needs to understand Islam, because this is the one religion that erases from its society the race problem. Throughout my travels in the Muslim world, I have met, talked to, and even eaten with people who in America would have been considered white, but the white attitude was removed from their minds by the religion of Islam. I have never before seen sincere and true brotherhood practiced by all together, irrespective of their color." Malcolm X.

I am sure you know that Mr. X was killed by the Nation of Islam for teaching that.

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

I am sure you know that Mr. X was killed by the Nation of Islam for teaching that.

Yes, that's why we do not consider the NOI to be <i>REAL</i> Muslims. They are teaching something else under the name of Islam. Although Malcolm X was one of them one day, but he realized the true Islam when he visited Mecca during pilgrimage, and when he come back to spread the good news about Islam, he was killed.


Salam


Wael.