Quranic Miracles

[Muslimah]

Bismillah

Like I said -- I'm not going to get into arguments over the meanings of Arabic words with you. If you want to discuss that you'll have to hit up one of the other members here.

Any one is seeking Arabic speakers help here??? :)

[Khairan]

Bismillah


Any one is seeking Arabic speakers help here??? :)

Maybe! :D
Please see above posts.


ws

[Muslimah]

Alright going to, free of charge..... :)

[Ruggedtouch]

It's a lot more than you've done. So far, you seem to be demanding an awful lot of evidence and offering precious little of your own.

I'm only requiring you to support your claims (scientific miracles in the quran), with evidence. I haven't seen it

You're right -- and as one of my early posts in this thread noted, Muslims run into problems for this very reason. The Qur'an is not a book of science, and although it is obvious that certain things are being described poetically while others are not, it certainly does create a bit of a ruckus when we attempt to sort the two. You'll get no argument from me there that at the least it can *appear* to be dishonest when Muslims try to do so. That's why I hate these debates.

Then why attempt to support an unsupportable claim that mountains stabilize tectonic plates when mountains are the result of the butting together of tectonic plates?

I don't know why you keep insisting that it's unanswered. The site very specifically addresses your claims.
1. You are wrong that mountains have no roots.


2. It is not news that mountains are formed by plate tectonics. The site explains this, and it is not problematic.


3. The site describes how a presence of a mountain stabilizes plates.


You have at no point addressed any of these claims. All you have done is say that the site is wrong. Now that leaves the question: Can you back it up?

1. Are you now back to roots or pegs?



2. Plate tectonics cause uplift of the overlying stratum from the pressure of the underlying stratum. That's not a root/peg, that's uplift of the overlying stratum from the pressure of the underlying stratum. Seems simple enough.


3. A site with a religious bias posts religiously motivated dogma and you believe it true. That's fine but it clashes with facts. When earthquakes and volcanoes happen primarily along zones of uplift (do a search on the USGS site or search for "ring of fire", it becomes plainly obvious that mountains do not stabilize the earth. Mountains and uplift are the result of plate tectonics which is exactly the opposite of a stable crust.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


Ok. then as far as I gather, the issue that needs to be resolved the translation: root/peg.


Am I not correct?


In Arabic, Allah Is of course being eloquent as well as explanatory. The Ayah says:


Have We not made the earth as a bed,


7. And the mountains as pegs?


َQuran 78:6-7


Now, all I will do Insh aAllah is help translating this part as a native Arabic speaker.


Although of course to gain a better understand, one must connect the sequencial verses. But well, let me help as much as possible.


In this chapter, Allah Starts with telling the Messenger prayer and peace be upon him regarding what the public is questioning him about. Then Allah, in an inquiry style, Asks Didnt we make the earth as bed, as the development of using it from physical place to sleep on in the old eras, till we build our accomodation facilities on and more. Then described the mountains as pegs. The word in Arabic is <b>أوتادا</b> Awtada. This is the plural of Watad. A watad is a wooden small thick piece of wood used to tie the tent robe to. Of course as well know, this piece of wood, in order to properly hold the tent, they must be dug deep into earth. This is what a watad is. Thus, I understand if one of the translators put it as root. Well but this is the literal translation.


Hope i helped ... free express service. :D

[Khairan]

I'm only requiring you to support your claims (scientific miracles in the quran), with evidence. I haven't seen it

The evidence has been offered. You haven't addressed it.

Then why attempt to support an unsupportable claim that mountains stabilize tectonic plates when mountains are the result of the butting together of tectonic plates?

Again, how are these two mutually exclusive? The argument expressly states that the mountains resulted from plates colliding, and *after* they have been formed they stabilize the land mass.

1. Are you now back to roots or pegs?

Stop being disingenuous -- I have made it clear that "roots" comes from pegs, and explained why. If you need further clarification, then see Muslimah's post below.

2. Plate tectonics cause uplift of the overlying stratum from the pressure of the underlying stratum. That's not a root/peg, that's uplift of the overlying stratum from the pressure of the underlying stratum. Seems simple enough.

Wrong. Not only is there uplift, but other rock gets pushed down. The articles I've linked, which you still ignore, have expressly addressed this.

3. A site with a religious bias posts religiously motivated dogma and you believe it true. That's fine but it clashes with facts. When earthquakes and volcanoes happen primarily along zones of uplift (do a search on the USGS site or search for "ring of fire", it becomes plainly obvious that mountains do not stabilize the earth. Mountains and uplift are the result of plate tectonics which is exactly the opposite of a stable crust.

Indeed, the site does have religious bias. However, they name their sources and they refer to geology texts in their discussion. So your argument that they are "biased," while true, fails to be a proof of anything. Like I said, provide EVIDENCE that mountainous areas are more unstable than areas that are not mountainous.

[Ruggedtouch]

The evidence has been offered. You haven't addressed it.

Read back through the thread.

Again, how are these two mutually exclusive? The argument expressly states that the mountains resulted from plates colliding, and *after* they have been formed they stabilize the land mass.

Why is it then that earthquakes and volcanoes most frequently occur along mountain/fault lines. In the U.S., the more active earthquake zones are along the Western mountainous regions, (Yellowstone National Park), Mt. St. Helens, to name a couple. These areas hardly stabilize the land mass. As is glaringly obvious, shifting land masses that cause mountains are by definition, the opposite of stable. Simple, really.



Oh, and just how do mountains "stabilize" a land mass? You may wish to discuss this with the survivors of the Bam earthquake in Iran. Do you think that perhaps Allah has played a cruel joke on you? Do a bit of research on the cause of the last Indonesian tsunami.

Stop being disingenuous -- I have made it clear that "roots" comes from pegs, and explained why. If you need further clarification, then see Muslimah's post below.
Wrong. Not only is there uplift, but other rock gets pushed down. The articles I've linked, which you still ignore, have expressly addressed this.

I've noticed only that your definitions are customized to suit your needs. You keep insisting that pegs/roots somehow stabilize the earth. It really makes no sense

Indeed, the site does have religious bias. However, they name their sources and they refer to geology texts in their discussion. So your argument that they are "biased," while true, fails to be a proof of anything. Like I said, provide EVIDENCE that mountainous areas are more unstable than areas that are not mountainous.

I've already posted such link.

[Khairan]

I've noticed only that your definitions are customized to suit your needs. You keep insisting that pegs/roots somehow stabilize the earth. It really makes no sense

Hmm, you seemed to find nothing wrong with the "root" discussion earlier, when you were convinced that no such thing existed. You also didn't start insisting that "definitions were being customized" until it was demonstrated that your insistence that roots did not exist was quite wrong. Fascinating.

[Ruggedtouch]

Hmm, you seemed to find nothing wrong with the "root" discussion earlier, when you were convinced that no such thing existed. You also didn't start insisting that "definitions were being customized" until it was demonstrated that your insistence that roots did not exist was quite wrong. Fascinating.

You're just making up this nonsense as you go along, arent' you?

[Khairan]

You're just making up this nonsense as you go along, arent' you?

Nope. All the nonsense is stuff you've said and which I've quoted. I'm sorry you don't like having to justify your posts, but that's generally what "debate" entails.