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dattaswami · 09-19-2006, 02:57 AM

It is said that God takes the form as per your desire. Does it not mean that He is formless? 

God is neither formless nor has form. In the creation both formless objects like air and form-full objects like earth exist. Because of this reason God is neither formless nor form-full since both are imaginable. Veda says that God is unimaginable. But God comes in human form, which is useful to the humanity in all directions.

The main aim of the human form is preaching Divine Knowledge. That is why God has taken a human form which is very much useful to the humanity in various angles. You have to worship such form taken by God. He is not your servant to come in the form you desire. In Gita the Lord said that He will approach the devotee in the same path as the devotee approaches. This does not mean that He will take the form as you like. You can take any form you like which can be a representative of God (Pratika) but God does not exist in it.

wel_mel_2 · 09-19-2006, 04:26 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:It is said that God takes the form as per your desire. Does it not mean that He is formless? 

God is neither formless nor has form. In the creation both formless objects like air and form-full objects like earth exist. Because of this reason God is neither formless nor form-full since both are imaginable. Veda says that God is unimaginable. But God comes in human form, which is useful to the humanity in all directions.

am afraid you are wrong... because according to your own scriptures, God was described as FORMLESS.

It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 32, Verse 3 “There is no image of Him” or in your language
“na tasya pratima asti”


it is also mentioned in
Yajurved, Chapter 40, Verse 8,

“He is body less and pure”

“He hath attained unto the bright, bodiless, woundless, sinewless, the pure which evil hath not pierced. Far-sighted wise, encompassing, he self existent hath prescribed aims as propriety demands unto the everlasting years”

Quote:You have to worship such form taken by God.

again, this is against your scriptures..

It is mentioned in
Bhagwad Geeta Chapter 7, Verse 20
,

“Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires worship demigods” that is “Those who are materialistic, they worship demigods” i.e. besides the true God.

It is mentioned in Rigveda, Book 8, Hymn 1, Verse 1
“Ma Chidanyadia Shansata”

“Do not worship
anybody but Him
, the divine one Praise Him alone”

Salam

Wael.

dattaswami · 09-19-2006, 03:43 PM

Quote:Bismillah:

am afraid you are wrong... because according to your own scriptures, God was described as FORMLESS.

It is mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 32, Verse 3 “There is no image of Him”
or in your language “na tasya pratima asti”

it is also mentioned in Yajurved, Chapter 40, Verse 8, “He is body less and pure”
“He hath attained unto the bright, bodiless, woundless, sinewless, the pure which evil hath not pierced. Far-sighted wise, encompassing, he self existent hath prescribed aims as propriety demands unto the everlasting years”

again, this is against your scriptures..

It is mentioned in Bhagwad Geeta Chapter 7, Verse 20, “Those whose intelligence has been stolen by material desires worship demigods” that is “Those who are materialistic, they worship demigods” i.e. besides the true God.

It is mentioned in Rigveda, Book 8, Hymn 1, Verse 1 “Ma Chidanyadia Shansata” “Do not worship anybody but Him, the divine one Praise Him alone”

Salam

Wael.

Thank you for your reply, when God comes in Human form He is not becoming that Body. God has entered that body. God do not have birth or death, but the body into which He enters have death and birth and it is not the God who takes brith and death. God enters into Human body to preach and uplift the Human souls by this human beings can approach Him and talk to Him , hear Him, touch Him, love Him and co-live with Him. Through Human Incarnation one can experience Lord.

Lord is substratum of the whole creation and hence forms base. Without Him creation cannot sustain. Lord created the universe for entertainment. He has given free will to all the human beings to do whatever they like. But, the results will follow the deeds. So, He is indirectly controlling, that is to say that enjoyment for good deeds and misery for bad deeds. Misery is to bring realisation only and not to repeat the same bad deed. Otherwise, He is not responsible for one's deeds.

Creation is in Lord but Lord is not the creation. But such a Lord can enter creation at the request of devotees who wants Him only and His service. He comes down to give four fortunes to His devotees (to talk, to touch, co-living and to serve).

wel_mel_2 · 09-20-2006, 04:07 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:Thank you for your reply, when God comes in Human form He is not becoming that Body. God has entered that body. God do not have birth or death, but the body into which He enters have death and birth and it is not the God who takes brith and death. God enters into Human body to preach and uplift the Human souls by this human beings can approach Him and talk to Him , hear Him, touch Him, love Him and co-live with Him. Through Human Incarnation one can experience Lord.

This is not our topic… I was simple answering your statement where you said that God is neither formless nor has form, So I quoted you from your scriptures where it says that God INDEED has no form, means formless. Which the opposite of what you said.

Salam

Wael

dattaswami · 09-20-2006, 04:56 PM

Quote:Bismillah:

This is not our topic… I was simple answering your statement where you said that God is neither formless nor has form, So I quoted you from your scriptures where it says that God INDEED has no form, means formless. Which the opposite of what you said.

Salam

Wael

Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9 Text -11

Fools deride Me when I descend in Human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.

Chapter 4- Text-7

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata and a predominant rise of irrelgiion at that time I descend Myself.

Chaper 4- Text-8

To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreats as well as to reetabilsh the principles of religion I My self appear generation after generatoion

The above are the some of the verses of Lord coming in Human form in every human generation.

wel_mel_2 · 09-21-2006, 12:16 AM

Bismillah:

Quote:Bhagavad Gita Chapter 9 Text -11

Fools deride Me when I descend in Human form. They do not know My transcendental nature as the Supreme Lord of all that be.

Chapter 4- Text-7

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata and a predominant rise of irrelgiion at that time I descend Myself.

Chaper 4- Text-8

To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreats as well as to reetabilsh the principles of religion I My self appear generation after generatoion

The above are the some of the verses of Lord coming in Human form in every human generation.

Great.. now we've started to be straight and to the point.. thanks for the quotations.

now could you please quote me one verse from the Vedas regarding human incarnation... since am not a Hindu, and i heard that Vedas are the most sacred amongst Hindus scriptures. then i would like to read one verse from vedas talking about human incarnation.

thanks

Wael

dattaswami · 09-22-2006, 02:54 AM

Quote:Bismillah:

Great.. now we've started to be straight and to the point.. thanks for the quotations.

now could you please quote me one verse from the Vedas regarding human incarnation... since am not a Hindu, and i heard that Vedas are the most sacred amongst Hindus scriptures. then i would like to read one verse from vedas talking about human incarnation.

thanks

Wael

Thanks, do not differentiate between, hindu, islam and christian etc, the knowledge about God is the same whatever may the religion, knolwedge about God is spirituality not religion.

One should not and never change one's religion to know God. Lord is coming (who is impartial), in human form in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls through His special divine knoweldge. Since all the scriptures of this world are from the same God, what ever He speaks is the scritpure.

Do not bring religion to spirituality.

dattaswami · 09-22-2006, 03:12 AM

Quote:Bismillah:

Great.. now we've started to be straight and to the point.. thanks for the quotations.

now could you please quote me one verse from the Vedas regarding human incarnation... since am not a Hindu, and i heard that Vedas are the most sacred amongst Hindus scriptures. then i would like to read one verse from vedas talking about human incarnation.

thanks

Wael

A sincere devotee who wish to love Lord is beyond religion, he looks for His divine knowledge only. Unless divine knowledge is known we cannot develope devotion to Lord. For this only Human incarnation preaches about Himself.

THE FOUR GREAT SENTENCES

There are four great sentences (Maha Vakyas) taken from four Vedas. The first sentence is ‘Aham Brahma Asmi’
. This means that I am like the Lord externally. That means when the Lord comes in Human form He looks like me. Here the figure of speech is ‘Upama Alankara’ (Simily). One mode of this figure of speech is ‘Lupta Upama Vachaka’ i.e.; the word ‘Like’ will be missing. Then the meaning should be taken in the following manner: ‘Aham’= I ‘Brahma’ = God (‘Iva’ = like) ‘Asmi’ = Look. Now the meaning is: ‘I look like God’ i.e., when God incarnates in human form like Lord Krishna, He just looks like me as far as the external appearance is concerned, because the Lord is also in a human body. Similarly the second sentence is ‘Tat Tvam Asi’. Tvam = You, Tat = God, (Iva = Like), Asi = Look. That means you look like God. This means that Lord Krishna looks like you externally. The third sentence is ‘Ayam Atma Brahma’ i.e., Ayam Atma = He, (Iva = Like), Brahma = God (Asti = looks). This means he looks like God externally. The essence of these three sentences is that Lord Krishna looks like you him and myself when He is viewed externally because the human body is same as any other human body. The fourth sentence is ‘Prajnanam Brahma’. This means Brahma = God, Prajnanam = a scholar with special divine knowledge. The fourth sentence differentiates Lord Krishna (or any human incarnation) from the other human beings because He possesses special divine knowledge, which no body can possess in this world. This sentence relates to the internal form of the human incarnation.

All these four sentences conclude that God comes only in the human form in every human generation to avoid partiality to a particular human generation. The fourth sentence also indicates that you should recognize such God in human form by His special divine knowledge and not by miracles because miracles are done by demons also. The Lord is said to be the true and infinite knowledge by Veda. 
Bhagavathgita says that the Lord comes to this world only through a human body (Manusheem Tanumasritam’). Gita did not mention that God comes in any other form. People have taken the direct meaning of these sentences and thought “I am God, You are God and He is God”. If you take the meaning like that, do you mean that every body in this world is Lord Krishna? If so, Lord Krishna preached Bagavathgita to Lord Krishna (Himself) only because Arjuna is also Lord Krishna!

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil Antony

www.universal-spirituality.org

Universal Spirituality for World Peace

antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

wel_mel_2 · 09-22-2006, 04:19 AM

Quote:Thanks, do not differentiate between, hindu, islam and christian etc, the knowledge about God is the same whatever may the religion, knolwedge about God is spirituality not religion.

One should not and never change one's religion to know God. Lord is coming (who is impartial), in human form in every human generation to preach and uplift the human souls through His special divine knoweldge. Since all the scriptures of this world are from the same God, what ever He speaks is the scritpure.

Do not bring religion to spirituality.

Where is my answer dattaswami???

does the veda mention anything about the incarnation of God?

Salam

Wael.

dattaswami · 09-22-2006, 05:09 PM

Quote:Where is my answer dattaswami???

does the veda mention anything about the incarnation of God?

Salam

Wael.

Veda says that the Lord comes down before your eyes and is not in any other world (Yatsakshaat aparokshaat Brahma
).

Knowledge is like a seed. It will give tree (Bhakti) and then the fruit (Karma or Seva) of the Lord. Without seed we cannot get the fruit. But, if the seed is not producing the tree and then the fruit, there is no use of such seed. Therefore, the knowledge must lead into practice and without practice there is no use of knowledge. Shankara said that human birth is very rare. Even if the human birth is achieved, the desire for salvation is still rare in the human beings. Even if such spiritual desire exists, catching Satguru is very very rare (Maha purusha samsrayah). Satguru is none but Narayana, who came down in the form of Nara (human being). Thus catching and pleasing the Satguru is the end of Saadhana (spiritual effort). The goal is attained here itself (Jeevanmukti).

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