This Christian's Final Thoughts

[Curious Christian]

First off, thanks for being open to me about what you believe. When I started here I knew very little about Islam. I don't claim to know everything about it now by any stretch, but I do have an understanding of Islam's core beliefs. I would encourage anybody I know who wants to know what Muslims believe to come to this website and engage in discussion with you kind folks.


I do not, however, believe anything about Islam to be true.


I reject the notion that Allah is the God of Abraham.


Taking the moongod of Arabic paganism and grafting him onto some Jewish History and Law, does not make him Jehovah and does not make him the Father of Christ. The two faiths share a history, because Judism and Christianity predate Islam and their well-documented histories were easily "borrowed," but in a heretical, pick-and-choose manner. If the natures of God and Jehovah are different, even if they share some law and history, how can they be the same immutable God?


Yet further, one can compare "Allah" to the God of the bible and notice marked difference.


Where in Islam is the Grace of the Judeo-Christian God?


Without Grace His Truth cannot be His Truth because He kept Grace and Truth in perfect balance. Truth without Grace deteriorates into self-righteous legalism (manner in which nails are clipped for example) and a prideful false doctrine of works, in which mankind delusion ally believes that he has the power to save himself. Who masquerades as an angel of light to create fog by mixing Truth with confusing lies? Islam meets the description of the Biblical "Doctrine of Demons." Christ, Paul, Peter, and John warned us about such false prophecy.


I also think that the life of your Prophet Mohammed was rather deplorable and in my opinion the biggest obstacle Islam presents to the Western free-thinker.


Many Americans wonder if Islam is inherently violent. Our media and government tells us that Islam is peaceful. George Bush even tells us that Islam is the religion of Peace. I believe that many Muslims are peaceful but I reject the notion that Islam itself is peaceful. How can it be? Look at the life of Mohammed.


It seems that we can determine whether Islam is inherently violent by looking at Mohammed's life, actions, and teachings. There is uncontested early historical record <i>from Muslims</i> that Mohammed typically ordered the assassination of his critics and praised the assassins for their work. The early Muslim records also mention him ordering torture, massacre, enslavement of the conquered, and granting permission for his troops to rape their female captives (though the Muslims, to be fair, do not see this as rape, since they do not believe that female war captives have the right of refusal, but are part of the booty distributed to the conquerors along with the gold and crops).


Religion of peace? When the early Muslim biographer Ibn Ishaq summed up Mohammed's career, he made a tally of how many raids and battles and other military campaigns Mohammed had either ordered or participated in. Why would someone say that Islam is a religion of peace? I don't believe that Islam is peaceful.


The early Muslim records do mention Mohammed lying about his intended target of attack so as to be sure no warning was given his intended targets, and allowing his followers to lie in order to achieve access to an assassination target. Mohammed's hadiths include this: "Warfare is deceit."


The teachings of Mohammed are so far removed from the teachings of Christ that it is impossible that they are both "prophets" from the same God.


I liken Islam to another false religion called Mormonism. Mormonism is false. We BOTH agree about that. Yet the Mormon Church is growing every year. Worldwide there are already 13,000,000 members or so and this religion only started in the late 1800s. Both religions were delivered to a man from an "angel." Both religions claim to be the last revelation from God to mankind. Both "prophets" Mohammed and Joseph Smith are controversial figures whose lives didn't seem to mirror the laws which they gave to their followers. Joseph Smith and Mohammed both crafted special rules for themselves regarding plural marriage.


Islam, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witness, Christian Science and such are exaclty what Paul was warning against in Galatians as I have posted below.


I want to reiterate that I do appreciate your time with me. I'll continue to pray that you to find the grace and truth that is Jesus Christ.


With that I say goodbye.


Source: Sirat Rasul Allah (earliest full-length Muslim bio of Mohammed available in English translation as Guillaume's Life of Mohammed, Oxford University Press). Don't take my word for what the early Muslim sources say, see it for yourself.

[Dan]

Bismillah


3:60. The Truth (comes) from Allah alone; so be not of those who doubt.


3:61. If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!"


3:62. This is the true account: There is no god except Allah. and Allah.He is indeed the Exalted in Power, the Wise.


3:63. But if they turn back, Allah hath full knowledge of those who do mischief.


3:64. Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah. that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah.s Will).


3:65. Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding?


3:66. Ah! Ye are those who fell to disputing (Even) in matters of which ye had some knowledge! but why dispute ye in matters of which ye have no knowledge? It is Allah Who knows, and ye who know not!


3:67. Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah.s (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.


3:68. Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Messenger and those who believe: And Allah is the Protector of those who have faith.


3:69. It is the wish of a section of the People of the Book to lead you astray. But they shall lead astray (Not you), but themselves, and they do not perceive!

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Alhamdulilah for Islam and Alhamdulilah that we were chosen by Allah to serve Him on this forum, I think u will keep praying till the day you die CC, and we will never leave our relegion. we will never leave the truth which u do not understand, many before u tried this throwing in our face the life of our Prophet(PBUH), which did not affect us, why because all of u are ignorant of His life, he was the last person to lie, or to torture or to rape, and all the things u put here will not shatter our beleifs or change our faith because we know his life and all these accusaions against him is wrong, some ahadeeths are misunderstood and mistranslated, and somewords are deliberately cut s from the ahadeeth to change the meaning. Alhamdulilah we know our relegion we know the life of our prophet, but it is others who do not know him and take the words of others in order to beautify to themselves their beleifs, Christ being killed on the cross for all humanity in order that this humanity can sin as much as it can, never worry the blood of christ will wash all your sins. I will not accept this as a human being, I will not accept this as a thinking intellect, I will not accept this since I have a brain to think and a heart that is beating. Why would one be sacrificed for millions of humans, why would "God" sacrifice His son for Humanity, he loves humanity more than His son. And how can jesus be "God" at the same time. And when Jesus who is "God" was crucified and dead for a period of time, who took care of all this vast universe, did it take care of itself. Everything in this universe is guided and taken care by its Creator, He never sleeps, never eats, never mates, "Subhanahu Wa T'a'ala Amma Yasfoon" Graceful He is to what they ascribe to Him, He is The One and Only Creator in this universe, nothing is like Him, nothing resembles Him, none has The Power He Has, and no one can see Him, He is far away from all vision. You want to beleive in a God, who looks like u that u can c and feel, can u see the heaven or hell, can u see this vast galaxy without the very complexed cameras and gadgets, and what u c is just one part of the skies and galaxies, there are other galaxies which u cannot c with your eye nor with other gadgets, except if Allah(SWT) Wills, so if creatons of The Creator cannot be seen, and cannot be reached except by effort and science who was built up by hundred of years, u want The Creator to be near to your vision and down on earth, how strange ??


Bismillah AlRahman Al-Raheem


<b> 255. Allâh! Lâ ilâha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He), the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His Kursî[] extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great. [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî.]</b>



256. There is no compulsion in religion. Verily, the Right Path has become distinct from the wrong path. Whoever disbelieves in Tâghût[] and believes in Allâh, then he has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that will never break. And Allâh is All-Hearer, All-Knower. 2, Surat Al-Baqara


This is A Creator who is worthy of worship, and not a human being who eats drinks sleeps and has to go to bathroom, "sorry for the expression", Alhamdulilah for the blessings of Islam, alhamdulilah for the blessings of Eman, and alhamdulilah that Allah(SWT) chose us from many among His creations and slaves to call and defend for His relegion.


Bismillah Al-Rahman Al-Raheem:


<b>19. The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His Will): Nor did the People of the Book dissent therefrom except through envy of each other, after knowledge had come to them. But if any deny the Signs of Allah, Allah is swift in calling to account.</b>



20. So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah.s sight are (all) His servants. 3,Surat Al-Imran


Peace

[wel_mel_2]

Bismillah:

Alhamdulilah for Islam and Alhamdulilah that we were chosen by Allah to serve Him on this forum,


Alhamdulilah for the blessings of Islam, alhamdulilah for the blessings of Eman, and alhamdulilah that Allah(SWT) chose us from many among His creations and slaves to call and defend for His relegion.

Alhamdulilah.


i just cannot find better words that what my sister radiyah said that <b>"we will never leave our relegion (ISLAM, The true religion). we will never leave the truth which u do not understand (AND YOU ARE NOT EVEN WILLING TO UNDERSTNAD
), many before u tried this throwing in our face the life of our Prophet (PBUH), which did not affect us, why? because all of u are ignorant of His life" </b> VERY VERY TRUE SISTER.



Salam


Wael.

[Muslimah]

Bismillah


as salam alykom


I echo each and every word Dan, Radiayh and Wael typed here.


Well Alhamdulelah we tried to provide u with answers CC. however, u still have to really look into the origin of many of your worships as this point was raised but you probably wanted to sweep it under the carpet. Any way, in reminding u of this, I mean no offense of showing off. Just a reminder to a fellow human being whom I m sure will continue searching. Your visit here, although u expressed total disagreement with the life of the greatest man on earth (with the testimony of non Muslims even), I m sure deep in your heart was a reason to trigger much.


Wish u see the light Insh aAllah soon enough CC.

[PUPPET]

Good bye Mr Texan!


Lucky u din do wot yo Jesuit brotheren did to my native american people when u landed on this site!

[PUPPET]

2. The Cow (Al-Baqarah)


002.171 The likeness of those who disbelieve (in relation to the messenger) is as the likeness of one who calleth unto that which heareth naught except a shout and cry. deaf, dumb, blind, therefore they have no sense.

[NaSra]

Salam Curious Christian


So Sad that you have reached such an unfair conclusion about Islam and Prophet Mohamed (Saw). Please remember that you have to be patient when learning about anything in Life. Learning requires time and an open mind. I enjoyed your inquisitiveness concerning Islam. If you really want to judge Islam, do that atleast in a fair way. Prophet Mohamed (PBUH) is man you have to learn about. I learn about him everyday and I've been a Muslim my entire life. You have just started learning and you are already giving up. If you really want to know who Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) Was. Read this book (with historical evidences: <b>When the Moon Split</b>. This book will tell you everything that you need to know about him. From His birth to the time he dies. (May Allah send mercy, peace & blessings on his soul). You will also learn that he never raised his hand to anyone, unless it was in combat as part of a Muslim force defending themselves from being destroyed by a very powerful oppositon. You will discover that he was a Man that was loved even by his enemies. He was known among the Muslims and the Non-Muslims as Al-Amin (the trustworthy one). There were people living in Mecca at the time of the prophet who even though they may have been against his message still put some of their wealth under his care because they knew how trustworthy and honest he was.


About Islam being not peaceful. When the Christians took Jerusalem in 1099 in the name of Jesus. They slaughtered (Massacared) the inhabitants Jew, Christian, and Muslim alike. On the other hand, when Salahudin (Saladin) captured Jerusalam in 1187 he gave strict orders that no Christian or inhabitant of the city should be touched. He forbid any retaliation and he even went so far as to protect the sanctity of the Christian places of Worship. The reason he did this was because as a devout Muslim. He knew that the killing of defenceless civilians is a crime and a horrible sin in Islam.


This is just a tiny example of the restraint that Allah teaches us through Islam, that many Muslims have followed throughout history including the Prophet (pbuh) most especially.


Allah made the truth as clear as the day and he made falsehood as deep and dark as the night.

[radiyah]

Bismillah


Dear Nasra, i think he knows all that, it is just that Islam cannot accept sins, in Islam there is no excuse for anyone commiting a sin, u do the sin u r responsible for it, no one else carries it upon his shoulder for u, if u repent and ask forgiveness between u and Allah, then u r forgiven, we do not need media between us and Allah. in christianity ask for forgivness from a pope or whoever and then go ahead u r forgivin, and go on with your life u can sin as much as u want and do whatever u want even killing innocent people in the name of spreading christianity and the call for the new middle east " I have been inspired by God" as Bush said, blood is being shed in the middle east because of The SO called inspiration, so then all these masacres and sins against humanity are justified because Jesus was crucified for humanity. What is this called killing women children and elderly, ah I forgot it is for spreading of democracy. Now when Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) fights to gain what The Kuffar took from him and muslims in mekkah, then he is a terrorist. When he fights to spread islam to save people from decatorship states like rome and pharsis then he is a terrorist. Most of those who come and throwing in our face how islam is barbaric, they forget to mention the barbarism that was spread in all the globe before islam, they forget to read other nations histories and how they were deeply drowned in slavery and greed. They forget all this, and they remember others who are spreading their poisons about islam out of envy, and they like to beleive it because islam does not fit with their LIFESTYLE.


Salam

[Rock]

Bismillah


I am not surprised for CC decision,he pretend that he want to know more about Islam,he raise many points to discuss but he built his decision on another topics he never discuss at lest in his last posts.He was not honest in his discusion even with himself.


For me I do`nt care about his decision,our religion is our responsibility,some people prefered to follow their parents and rush defending that without thinking,this is their choice.


I will not pray for him,if he want to find the truth he can pray for the real God who creat the universe to guide him,then he must go in his way with unbiased heart and open mind,only he should ask the creator of the universe,who some are knew and some did`nt.